Race Rules (at long last)

So what does this mean for a high elf scholar CLERIC!? Cleric isnt on the high elf profession list.. crap. Is this going to suck to be me? I never realized that before  :-\

I could swear it says this in the first couple pages, but not one seems to notice it, so maybe I'm crazy. But the answer to Skimmel's question is that if a profession doesn't appear as a Starting profession, but is not Penalized or Prohibited, you can acquire it as a secondary (tertiary, whatever) profession for the normal cost of 10 build.

Matt White answered this question on the first page of this thread.

Much earlier in this thread, I asked a fairly legitimate question which hasn't been addressed.  What happens to the familial curses on all the Gypsies?  Do they just vanish?

Liz,
The online rulebook race section is not updated properly yet.  You have to go by what is in the download.  I've started updating the pages but this always causes errors to appear, which I then have to go back and fix.  When I have updated everything affected by the rule update and eliminated any errors, I say so in the rule update thread as well as the online rulebook thread in the rules question forum. This is how it always goes and if you notice the first page shows the last update to the online rulebook as being back in feb. :)  I'm usually pretty fast at getting rules updates integrated, but this is a big one that affects *a lot* of pages.  Cut me some slack :)

Zach,
I dont know how plot wants to handle that.  For existing gypsies, I woud say it is optional to keep if you want, but you may remove it if you like. All new ones will not have the curses.

Andy,
Role-play requirements are required and anyone not playing them could face a rules violation.  So yea, role-play requirements were always problematic and there was no specific way to enforce them.  By identifying the two most crucial RP points for each race, now there is a way.  Everyone should RP the race according to the paragraphs describing the races, but those two role-play requirements are set in stone per say.  It was never intended to have people play a race and then completely ignore the racial role-play associated with it as has been done for far too long now.

If a player wants to play a character and role-play it without restrictions, they should play a human. Thats one of the biggest strengths of being a plan old human.

I wonder what high elf you are talking about...

Two general points about these rules:

1. As Roy discussed to some extent previously, the intent behind the two RP requirements is that they will now be the things strictly enforced. The rest of the details should be role-played as well, but there's some latitude with them. The reason for doing it this way is two-fold. One, as Roy said, the sheer number of requirements that existed before made enforcement nearly impossible. Two, the distribution of requirements wasn't balanced, which left some races significantly weaker than others based on their need to role-play more potentially self-destructive or problematic traits than other races. Now everyone has two of them, and if you're going to breach one you'll get an RV first and a chance to make your case to the Character Officer later.

2. The penalized and prohibited professions concept is now the primary balancing factor between the races. Some of the old, classic statistical detriments were kept, but in general we switched to a system where access to professions is the big dividing line.

To create some rhyme and reason to the process, I put together a spreadsheet which I used to tally the build value of a race's benefits and a percentage value of the skill list (since you still have to pay build for them, they aren't a straight build gift for your PC). I also factored in discounted skills, such as the cheap Strength +1 that appears on some lists. I then started with a default selection of twelve starting professions, and for some races scored them with a significant detriment value for having only six. Next I valued the statistical detriments we were keeping, such as reduced BP or Weakness vs. Poison. Finally I took whatever balance of build remained and began assigning professions to the penalized and prohibited categories. Professions were recognized as being major (e.g., Mage) or minor (e.g., Scholar), with majors being worth more if you had penalized or no access to them. Then with some final tweaking here and there, we reached a point of relative balance between the races.

The most important thing, I guess, to understand about the starting, penalized, and prohibited professions lists is that they're serving a balancing purpose, and therefore not all likely or even plausible combinations are allowed or ruled out - it depends on what we needed to do to balance that race to a zero sum benefit. As with most profession lists, where you could always make the case the list should have additional skills 'because they makes sense', or argue that other skills aren't a perfect match, at some point you just say that it's close enough, because the desire to balance things in terms of fair rules and the desire to balance things aesthetically are competing agendas.

That's not to suggest that what is here is perfect just as it is, but that we have to accept that it will never be perfect in everyone's eyes, and probably not even in our own. As always, if some things reveal themselves to be terrible ideas in the near future, we can tweak the system as needed.

Came down from the hills to check out a few things and see this buzzing around.  Dinner soon...  Ratz

I suppose that the extra commodity card required for the lifestyle build no longer applies...

I also suppose that a High Elf can be a priest or cleric as long as the class it not the character's first class...

OOC:
Norm B

I suppose that the extra commodity card required for the lifestyle build no longer applies...

I also suppose that a High Elf can be a priest or cleric as long as the class it not the character's first class...

OOC:
Norm B

This is correct, which should answer your question Heather. You can dual class cleric with no issues, you just cannot start as one. Should your character have previously started as a cleric it would be grandfathered and since it is not penalized or prohibited it will not cost any extra build.

Its alright Roy...I was just making sure I wasn't crazy....well, in that sense anyways  ;D

I have two questions. Being that there are some new skills to be learned such as improvise weapon, do we have to learn the skill  IG , or when we come to the event if we have build can we just put them on or card?
and
On the satyr professions list i did not see Chaos warrior under and of the three types of professions(Starting,Penalized,Prohibited), and i was wondering if you could play one?

If it is not under starting, penalized or prohibted then it means you and duel class into one, as Sam mentioned.  So our good friend Dios could start as a Druid and become a Chaos Warrior later but he could not start as a Chaos Warrior.

I'm not sure I understand the confusion on the classes and races, but I'll try to put it as plainly as possible:

Starting Professions: These are the only professions the race may start as.

Prohibited Professions: These are the only professions the race may never, under any circumstance, learn.  Neither James, nor the CCO can override these. Think of it like this, you can't get the Director to say "your slay does 500 max, while everyone else still does 400." Its the same thing here.

All other Professions: These may be learned any time after character creation.  Penalized professions are a part of this group, they simply cost slightly more.

what i meant by my first questions was i play a PC from coast haven and i would like to adopt it as my race, now can i buy the racial skills in logistics the next event i attend or will there be a NPC sent out to teach the new skills.

Matt, your question about learning the racial skills is answered on page 4 in the section called "Racial Skill List". All racials can be self taught and have a max of one purchase each.

Well, that 90% answers his question. He also wants to know - I assume - if he'll be able to come into game with them or if he'll need to self-teach them at that event. I'll answer it in broad form - you can acquire a racial skill if your racial skill set is changing as a result of these new rules.

For example, Matt's PC is changing from Kormyrian to Coast Haven. This changes his entire race, and so yes, he can spend available build on racial skills before the event begins. He has the most flexible option because his previous race doesn't have a skill list, so there's no way for us to say, x amount of build is what you spent before and can spend now.

If your PC had a racial skill that is now gone, you can respend that build immediately, on a racial skill if possible or on a profession skill otherwise.

Other changes will be handled on as limited a basis as is possible. While we want to accommodate everyone adapting their characters to the new rules in a way that they like, this is not an opportunity to rewrite your PCs. That's the spirit behind what will be allowed and what won't.

thank you

With the starting professions- I started with bard but its not on my list. I know I can choose another of my lists to have started with, but what happens if I had gotten the promo skill? Would I still get it?

You don't have to change anything. Your starting profession choice will be grandfathered, so nothing needs to change in that regard. If it's now a penalized profession, you'll need to pay the 5 build penalty, but you'll be able to keep it as your first profession.

In any event, the promo skill is not dependent on your starting class any more, so as long as you had the pre-reqs you'd be fine. And if you didn't, we'd let you keep the skill on the condition that you'd work toward the pre-reqs with your next-earned build.

That last comment seems to indicate that there will be new profession rules shortly.  Is that the case?

There aren't any new profession rules in the works.  What Matt meant by "Your promo skill isn't dependent on your starting class" was that you could dual class into a secondary profession, spend 120 build, and learn the promo off of THAT list.

Make sense?

As Aaron said, the general answer is no, there will not be major profession changes forthcoming. We have a handful of small tweaks, and there has been discussion of adding a new profession, but there won't be anything akin to a massive "Profession Rules" document like we just did with races. Professions have undergone numerous changes over the past couple of years, and we have them where we like them, for the most part.

Professions have undergone numerous changes over the past couple of years, and we have them where we like them, for the most part.

All you need to do is get rid of Psions and then you'll be totally happy, right? 

As for Promo and 120 build... the 120 build is the total overall amount of build your character has, not that amount in just 1 profession, correct?

To get a promotional skill you must fit either one of two categories.

100 build spent without dual classing (does not count higher lists).
120 build spent on said class.

Simple examples
10th level mage (can get promo skill)
10th level mage with valence higher list (can get promo skill)
10th level mage/swash combination (cannot get promo skill for either lists)
25 level mage/swash combo with 200 build spent on the mage list (can get mage promo)
25 level mage swash combo with 120 build spent on mage and 130 spent on swash (can get either promo).

and so on.

All you need to do is get rid of Psions and then you'll be totally happy, right?

I would gladly trade that one change for all the rest under consideration, yes. People sometimes joke (and sometimes they aren't joking) that I'm secretly the person that really runs KR. Look no further than the continued existence of the Psion profession if you want to know who really runs Bartertown...

Look no further than the continued existence of the Psion profession if you want to know who really runs Bartertown...

So does that makes James the midget or the giant brute?

Look no further than the continued existence of the Psion profession if you want to know who really runs Bartertown...

So does that makes James the midget or the giant brute?

I always thought that James was Aunty Entity.

No, no, no!  James is Mr. Dead!

To get a promotional skill you must fit either one of two categories.

100 build spent without dual classing (does not count higher lists).
120 build spent on said class.

Simple examples
10th level mage (can get promo skill)
10th level mage with valence higher list (can get promo skill)
10th level mage/swash combination (cannot get promo skill for either lists)
25 level mage/swash combo with 200 build spent on the mage list (can get mage promo)
25 level mage swash combo with 120 build spent on mage and 130 spent on swash (can get either promo).

and so on.

Just wanted to point out in my above poorly worded example. The (does not count higher lists). comment was meant that buying a higher list does not count as dual classing. So a 10th level mage that has 30 build in valence and 70 on the mage list can get his promo.

so you're letting even prohibited profession be grandfathered if they were your first?