Money, Taxes, and Rebates

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18 years 4 days ago #1872 by Matt D (MattD)
biz.yahoo.com/ap/080207/economy_stimulus.html

Sounds promising if Bush signs it.

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18 years 4 days ago #1899 by Lord Renaudierre (Sir Renaudierre)
its only promising if the majority of people spend it, and not on bills, rather than saving it. 

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18 years 4 days ago #1919 by Fogrom (Fogrom)
This is a horrible, horrible idea.

It would take a while to explain why the American economy needs a recession, and of course it's never popular no matter how necessary it is because people don't like to lose their jobs. I perfectly understand. But, the economy needs one, and it will have one. Injecting $600 per person will only delay the inevitable and magnify the effect when the recession does come.

Furthermore, this entire proposition is being sold upon a lie. This is not a tax rebate. A tax rebate would require that we had surplus tax revenue that the government was refunding to us. We do not have a surplus. All tax revenue was spent last year, and billions more dollars were borrowed to pay for additional government spending beyond what our tax revenue was able to pay for.

This stimulus package is, in effect, a loan that the U.S. Government is taking out on your behalf, and then asking you to spend on products that you probably don't need, all in the blind hope that it will push us through the current turbulence. The turbulence is the result of the subprime mortgage disaster, which in turn is a function of the real estate bubble finally bursting. It is a bigger problem than it appears to be on the surface, however, because what lies beneath it all is that the Chinese government (primarily, with a couple of other big stakeholders) has invested vast sums of money (well over a trillion dollars) in U.S. treasury notes. As our real estate market heaves and collapses under its own weight, the Chinese are watching alot of their money vanish in the process. As the federal reserve lowers interest rates to get the economy moving, the Chinese are even more threatened, as this effects the return rate they're getting on their trillion-plus dollars invested in those T-bills.

China and the U.S. are now locked in a very damaging and frustrating relationship, as the Chinese are over-invested in the dollar and we are over-indebted to them. We are like two angry dogs locked at the mouth - neither of us is going to win, the first one to try and get out of the struggle will maul us both, and everyone watching is just glad they aren't one of us.

This stimulus package, is a gamble by our lawmakers to skirt around the problem. Lowering interests rates hasn't provided the punch needed to stop the recession. Lowering them further risks a Chinese withdrawal from the dollar, which in turn risks a collapse of the dollar and possibly the most devastating blow to our economy since the Great Depression. Honestly, some economists say it would be worse. So Washington has decided to try throwing money at the problem. However, borrowing $168 billion, most of which will come from China and most of which will be spent on products imported from China, will not make things better. It will create the illusion of things being better until people have spent through their checks, and then our real problem will only have grown larger.

In order to avoid an economic catastrophe that could have a ripple effect across the entire world, the U.S. and China need to work carefully and deliberately together to ween ourselves off of this codependent relationship. And the first step is that U.S. must recognize that a recession is due, and that we can't keep trying riskier and riskier tricks to avoid it. A recession now will be far less painful than a depression in two years - to say nothing of how the rest of the world will suffer if this situation collapses utterly.

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18 years 4 days ago #1921 by Inajira (Inajira)
Thanks, Matt.  I'm going to go and hide under my bed now.

/cry

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18 years 4 days ago #1922 by Tamzyn Worthington (shimmershadow)
I seem to recall something like this happening when Bush first came to power seven years ago.  The companies I work with, especially those covering the consumer/luxury sectors, were rather excited and projecting all kinds of short-term boosts in the grand hopes that people would take their checks and spend them on going out to eat, retail, and other assorted whatnot.  They were very quiet when, after checks were distributed, trends showed that people were spending a very little bit and then socking the rest away in savings.  A recession now will hurt, and it will suck, there is no doubt about that, but it is absolutely temporary.  A full-on economic depression will hurt a great deal more, have wider repercussions, and will be a lot harder to get out of.  If this passes, I know a great deal of my check will be going to paying down bills, so that eventually, I will have more money to spend on luxury stuff.  (Mind you, there is a nagging little voice in the back of my head that is saying, "Blow the cash while you got it, lady!"  My finance guy hates that little voice.)

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18 years 4 days ago #1928 by Fogrom (Fogrom)
At least the rebate in the first year of Bush's administration was a genuine rebate, in that there was a tax surplus that year.

There is some good news, though, that may inspire Aaron out from under his bed. A recession will mean lower gas prices, as energy demand declines because of the slowed economy. I've read that a gallon of gasoline could be fifty cents less by June.

Matt White
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