Stand up for what is right
- Father Nikolai

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- Posts: 42
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12 years 2 months ago #92519
by Father Nikolai (ertsyperts)
Father Nikolai
Matthew E.
Replied by Father Nikolai (ertsyperts) on topic Stand up for what is right
There is one thing people seem to be forgetting. Just because Xualla is slain does not mean the war is over. How many hundreds upon hundreds of demons remain upon our plane yet ravaging the landscape for wont of better to do? How many would be tyrants are going to rise up to fill the power void left by the destroyed cultures and enslave those who are merely trying to survive? To beat our swords into plowshares would be foolish and inviting death.
With that said I do not believe seeking out the Dark Clergy at this time to be beneficial to us at all. Travance is one of if not the only bastion of might that still stands. To weaken ourselves at this point with a witch hunt would waste time, resources and lives. Although I do believe some sort of fairness is in order. I may be mistaken but don't our Nyads and Dark Elves need to meet with the Guard or Baroness each month to prove their loyalty? Why not subject them to that same treatment?
Ultimately we need to gird ourselves against the coming storm. It's not only us we need to be careful about. I've heard talk that if the Dark Clergy don't harm towns member's they're fine? What of the peasants and others we're supposed to protect? Are they to be sheep to the slaughter? We need to realize it's not just about Travance anymore. The rebellion earlier this year should have showed us that. With the world a forsaken wasteland we need to be the ones to rise above the ashes and lift the others up until Arawyn can stand on her own again.
I urge you, all of you to consider all options and to think not what's best for us, but what's best for the world. That's what we fight and struggle for, we fight for those who can't fight for themselves.
With that said I do not believe seeking out the Dark Clergy at this time to be beneficial to us at all. Travance is one of if not the only bastion of might that still stands. To weaken ourselves at this point with a witch hunt would waste time, resources and lives. Although I do believe some sort of fairness is in order. I may be mistaken but don't our Nyads and Dark Elves need to meet with the Guard or Baroness each month to prove their loyalty? Why not subject them to that same treatment?
Ultimately we need to gird ourselves against the coming storm. It's not only us we need to be careful about. I've heard talk that if the Dark Clergy don't harm towns member's they're fine? What of the peasants and others we're supposed to protect? Are they to be sheep to the slaughter? We need to realize it's not just about Travance anymore. The rebellion earlier this year should have showed us that. With the world a forsaken wasteland we need to be the ones to rise above the ashes and lift the others up until Arawyn can stand on her own again.
I urge you, all of you to consider all options and to think not what's best for us, but what's best for the world. That's what we fight and struggle for, we fight for those who can't fight for themselves.
Father Nikolai
Matthew E.
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- Typhon Cedricson Scyldinga

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12 years 2 months ago #92521
by Typhon Cedricson Scyldinga (Null507)
Replied by Typhon Cedricson Scyldinga (Null507) on topic Re:Stand up for what is right
Never forget what the gods of darkness stand for. Destruction, Torment, Corruption and Death. How can we rebuild with those who worship a god of destruction? How can we live safely when there are those who revel in the torture they give as offering to their goddess? Necromancy may still be outlawed but are the bodies of our fallen friends any safer with Glommites living openly? How do we hope to live in a peaceful balance with worshipers of darkness when their worship is an enemy to peace?
For the Innocent,
Typhon Cedricson Scyldinga
For the Innocent,
Typhon Cedricson Scyldinga
- Muzen

- Junior Member

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12 years 2 months ago #92522
by Muzen (Yoshimatsu)
Replied by Muzen (Yoshimatsu) on topic Stand up for what is right
destruction is never an end,its a change,and change is a beginning
the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth
the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth
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- Chris McKenzie

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12 years 2 months ago #92526
by Chris McKenzie (cgmckenzie)
OOG: Chris
IG: Benjamin Daimler
IG: Grobspit Snaggletooth G.D.S
Replied by Chris McKenzie (cgmckenzie) on topic Stand up for what is right
**Not Benjamin Daimler**
As I have heard it, the high priestess of the light clergy has authorized a peaceful coexistence with the dark clergy. Enax commands that we respect and follow those in positions of authority, and his word is law! Our betters have issued an edict, it is our place to follow it!
Praise be to Enax, his Authority guides us all! All glory be to His priests in Gaaldron!
-Grobspit Snaggletooth G.D.S.
As I have heard it, the high priestess of the light clergy has authorized a peaceful coexistence with the dark clergy. Enax commands that we respect and follow those in positions of authority, and his word is law! Our betters have issued an edict, it is our place to follow it!
Praise be to Enax, his Authority guides us all! All glory be to His priests in Gaaldron!
-Grobspit Snaggletooth G.D.S.
OOG: Chris
IG: Benjamin Daimler
IG: Grobspit Snaggletooth G.D.S
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- Razael Seiryn

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- Posts: 39
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12 years 2 months ago - 12 years 2 months ago #92527
by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn)
OOG: Daniel Osmun
Replied by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn) on topic Stand up for what is right
You cannot judge a group of people based off of a handful of sociopaths who happen to wage war against the town. There are many functional towns members whom pay homage to dark gods. I find it ironic that people like you Billiam have no issue fighting sight by side, drinking with, or being friends with someone until they don a Raven and call themselves what they are. You are inciting Suffering, Prejudice, Hatred, Bigotry, Disrupting Peace, Falling into the own Darkest Aspects of your own heart, You are waging War, Inciting Murder, Threatening Others, Sparking those around you to hostility, and Disregarding the Bonds of Friendship Entirely. I think we need another excommunication. Don't worry, when your church comes for you I will gladly Baptize you to Agaura and take you within our ranks, for your heart truly belongs to her.
The time of those who pretend to be 'Good' who wage evils in the name of 'Good' to be brought to justice. You are no different than those who burn their own city down and wipe their civilizations off the map towards the discovery of one black sorceress leading them. I ask Travance at large a question: When Worship of a Dark God comes with the penalty of death, why would any other law be followed? If I am going to be killed for my beliefs, but not my actions why would my actions not reflect the most profane hatreds and turmoils? Why should I care about murdering an innocent? Why should I care about thieving and community? Why should I restrain myself when I'm a dead man walking?
The Gods Demand Balance. This means zealotry is a time of the past. I have a dream of building a real church of Agaura in this town, like the church of old. I preach a neutral Agaura; Where we unite under the flag of a goddess of War and not suffering. Where Darkness means controlling our darkest impulses and refining them; Where ethics no longer rule the battlefield with consequence and our enemies are crushed beneath our heels, so that Travance is a place that is feared as well as respected. That every suffering of every being is accepted, understood, and learned from; That suffering is a grand teacher and those who wish to learn the ways of the world, learn better with a blood price.
Being evil does not mean you are stupid. Being Agauran does not mean that you are immune to societal contracts. Strength comes as an individual, not a group. An army is comprised of strong individuals not friends. A Valosian sees an army's duty as to protect each other, an Enaxian's Army protects the established Order, and an Agauran Army Destroys its enemies and trusts that the man next to you is capable of handling his own worth. I have been in Travance for longer than most, and take frequent leaves to pay worship to my goddess outside of the proper. Up until this point, I have ceased all 'worship' in accordance with the laws of this land, ceased using prayers, and obeyed the letter of the law to completion aside from my Baptism.
So Billiam, do I deserve to be slain for those beliefs? When I set the mantle of Brother or Father down in supplication of the social contract to exist in this town? When I was baptized as a child, and learned and was raised on the beliefs of an Agauran, do I forsake my CLAN, people I've FOUGHT WITH, do I BETRAY those who have not wronged me, and succumb to the BULLYING of those who wish to push their religious zealotry on others because they are too narrow minded to understand that the world is not black and white? The answer is No. I will not lay down my faith to prejudice, because all the suffering you cause me will make me stronger.
Thank you for all your prior service to Agaura Billiam. Keep up the Good Work.
Signed and Apologetic for the Oversight,
Razael Seiryn
The time of those who pretend to be 'Good' who wage evils in the name of 'Good' to be brought to justice. You are no different than those who burn their own city down and wipe their civilizations off the map towards the discovery of one black sorceress leading them. I ask Travance at large a question: When Worship of a Dark God comes with the penalty of death, why would any other law be followed? If I am going to be killed for my beliefs, but not my actions why would my actions not reflect the most profane hatreds and turmoils? Why should I care about murdering an innocent? Why should I care about thieving and community? Why should I restrain myself when I'm a dead man walking?
The Gods Demand Balance. This means zealotry is a time of the past. I have a dream of building a real church of Agaura in this town, like the church of old. I preach a neutral Agaura; Where we unite under the flag of a goddess of War and not suffering. Where Darkness means controlling our darkest impulses and refining them; Where ethics no longer rule the battlefield with consequence and our enemies are crushed beneath our heels, so that Travance is a place that is feared as well as respected. That every suffering of every being is accepted, understood, and learned from; That suffering is a grand teacher and those who wish to learn the ways of the world, learn better with a blood price.
Being evil does not mean you are stupid. Being Agauran does not mean that you are immune to societal contracts. Strength comes as an individual, not a group. An army is comprised of strong individuals not friends. A Valosian sees an army's duty as to protect each other, an Enaxian's Army protects the established Order, and an Agauran Army Destroys its enemies and trusts that the man next to you is capable of handling his own worth. I have been in Travance for longer than most, and take frequent leaves to pay worship to my goddess outside of the proper. Up until this point, I have ceased all 'worship' in accordance with the laws of this land, ceased using prayers, and obeyed the letter of the law to completion aside from my Baptism.
So Billiam, do I deserve to be slain for those beliefs? When I set the mantle of Brother or Father down in supplication of the social contract to exist in this town? When I was baptized as a child, and learned and was raised on the beliefs of an Agauran, do I forsake my CLAN, people I've FOUGHT WITH, do I BETRAY those who have not wronged me, and succumb to the BULLYING of those who wish to push their religious zealotry on others because they are too narrow minded to understand that the world is not black and white? The answer is No. I will not lay down my faith to prejudice, because all the suffering you cause me will make me stronger.
Thank you for all your prior service to Agaura Billiam. Keep up the Good Work.
Signed and Apologetic for the Oversight,
Razael Seiryn
OOG: Daniel Osmun
Last edit: 12 years 2 months ago by Razael Seiryn (Razael Seiryn).
- Templar Aldric

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12 years 2 months ago #92531
by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Stand up for what is right
I read these notes and ponder what the future may hold. At the outset of my thoughts here, I must add these are my personal opinions and not representative of the Church of Light's position.
This is not an argument of Good vs. Evil. Of the conflict between the two there is no balance. Thou art either Good or Evil, there is no middle ground. Thine acts can straddle the fence at times, but at any one moment thou can only act as one or the other. This is a debate over Law vs. Chaos. The spectrum of behavior between the two is broad and contains a middle ground that can be successfully trod. So putting away the debate of Good vs. Evil, the Morality, as it were, we are left with the Law. We are commanded to regard the existence of Clergy and parishioners of the Dark Gods as no longer illegal. Therefore we are left with a legal quandary, not an ethical one. If a Clergy wishes to build a temple or shrine to a Dark God, that in itself is not against the Law. If a worshiper wishes to expound on the tenets of their God's worship, again not illegal. However, as the worship requires illegal acts, harm to be enacted upon others, functionally there has been no change in the Law.
There are many good points made regarding 'balance' in these statements. For example, the author before me hath set out to portray his faith in Agaura as benign and without violation of societal contracts. While very articulate and passionate as befits a devout worshiper, this assertion is a fallacy. IF he does not break any laws, he contends, where is the harm in worshiping a Dark God? If it were possible to not break any laws in doing so, he would be correct. It is not possible in most circumstances and thus his logic falls apart. For example, the worship of Agaura requires torture and pain to be visited upon an unwilling victim. There is no getting around that aspect and it is much the same story with the rest of the Dark Gods. In order to practice their faith, those following the Dark Gods must commit acts which are still unlawful. Nothing has changed aside from the spirit of the Law no longer being based on Morality, but on Legality.
So, we watch, we wait, and patiently allow those who follow their heart in embracing the Dark Gods to fall into their own trap. They may temporarily hide their acts, but Justice will be an ever present fate should they fail to conceal their criminal ways. This will be done not out of Hate, not in the throes of Bigotry nor without Mercy, for those are truly set upon the Dark Path. The Law is without these things, it sets forth a clear boundary for our society to follow and falling outside that boundary still carries the penalty it always has, and which the criminal willst bring on themselves. The line hath been drawn, the path to the Dark Gods lays outside it.
This is not an argument of Good vs. Evil. Of the conflict between the two there is no balance. Thou art either Good or Evil, there is no middle ground. Thine acts can straddle the fence at times, but at any one moment thou can only act as one or the other. This is a debate over Law vs. Chaos. The spectrum of behavior between the two is broad and contains a middle ground that can be successfully trod. So putting away the debate of Good vs. Evil, the Morality, as it were, we are left with the Law. We are commanded to regard the existence of Clergy and parishioners of the Dark Gods as no longer illegal. Therefore we are left with a legal quandary, not an ethical one. If a Clergy wishes to build a temple or shrine to a Dark God, that in itself is not against the Law. If a worshiper wishes to expound on the tenets of their God's worship, again not illegal. However, as the worship requires illegal acts, harm to be enacted upon others, functionally there has been no change in the Law.
There are many good points made regarding 'balance' in these statements. For example, the author before me hath set out to portray his faith in Agaura as benign and without violation of societal contracts. While very articulate and passionate as befits a devout worshiper, this assertion is a fallacy. IF he does not break any laws, he contends, where is the harm in worshiping a Dark God? If it were possible to not break any laws in doing so, he would be correct. It is not possible in most circumstances and thus his logic falls apart. For example, the worship of Agaura requires torture and pain to be visited upon an unwilling victim. There is no getting around that aspect and it is much the same story with the rest of the Dark Gods. In order to practice their faith, those following the Dark Gods must commit acts which are still unlawful. Nothing has changed aside from the spirit of the Law no longer being based on Morality, but on Legality.
So, we watch, we wait, and patiently allow those who follow their heart in embracing the Dark Gods to fall into their own trap. They may temporarily hide their acts, but Justice will be an ever present fate should they fail to conceal their criminal ways. This will be done not out of Hate, not in the throes of Bigotry nor without Mercy, for those are truly set upon the Dark Path. The Law is without these things, it sets forth a clear boundary for our society to follow and falling outside that boundary still carries the penalty it always has, and which the criminal willst bring on themselves. The line hath been drawn, the path to the Dark Gods lays outside it.
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