The Pirate Accords of 1217

Here I sit in Port, enjoying a drink or three, and the sailors and bartenders alike are all a flutter with the news of "pirate accords." (That is where I am by the by, which means my responses shall be scarce.) I have had a chance to read over these accords, and I have presented them to my crew, to be voted on. As I serve their interests, I shall wait until such time as they have all had their say before choosing to sign or to not sign. Overall most seem to think a large portion of these articles are well written, and we are quick to applaud the specific intention behind many. Apparently one of my crew already spoke pointing to the parts we liked so I don't feel the need to recap.

Likewise throughout this argument I've seen some sentiments I agree with, and some I disagree with. So it has left me curious, and but uncertain. I have some questions to try and clear things up a bit.

Questions for the framers of this document;
First, and possibly most important; Jobs. thus far both in the accords and in your arguments you have specified that jobs are important, and it is the distinction that makes you not a privateer. Said group chooses their own jobs, rather than being given jobs by a Lord, or a government official. So for clarity, if one were to join this organization, what sort of jobs should one expect to be given by this group? If I joined who would my ship and crew be attacking? Would we be attacking anyone?

Second, and this is more of an aside, but since I rather like the ideas behind how leadership of the organization would be selected, I am curious. How do you plan to select the first "Pirate King?" Since You need a King to nominate Pirate Lords, and you need a King or Queen to name Lords?

And finally, for the people who make the laws of the town, the lords and ladies and magistrates and what not, what is the official policy on say... if someone had a ship and a crew and decided to attack your enemies? Would that not be unsanctioned action and therefore piracy? Would you arrest them? I know this is not on the topic at hand but I feel it's very related and something I've been curious about for some time.

Atrus, I have no idea who you are, but I will bear in mind - should I ever encounter you - your very delicate and easily disrupted constitution vis-à-vis humor.

Granted that Cade did this in a crowded room (I was there as well and can vouch that he reprimanded the fool and never took his money), it does beg the question as to why you did not speak up or try to intervene, if you were utterly convinced that a crime was being committed. Clearly it didn't concern you all that much until you realized it was open season on Tanwyns.

Good afternoon all.

Now that I've finished some of my business for Jonas, I would like to clarify something so there is no question: There is no such thing as - nor will there ever be - a fee for being brought back through the Focus. It is not a service to be monetized. It is a rite and responsibility to those who live in Travance and one that is not taken lightly by those who are attuned.

The conversation in question involved parties talking and me wincing and saying 'no' a lot. And while the question of healers and pay is a topic for another posting, the conversation did end with the decision that there will a donations box at the hospital.

Oh, right. There will be a hospital opening in the Proper soon, if anyone is interested.


Liighkaa,
Life in the Proper is a bit different after the everyone leaves after the feasting weekends. If you're interested to what happens when the Monsters are not attacking, wait until later tonight. Everyone will flood the Inn. It gets very lively. Especially when Alfin tries to bring his cow inside...


Everyone else,
If we run out of pins to post new parchment to the board, please see Ethan behind the bar. He has a further supply. Please do not use daggers, it leaves gouges in the board and we just replaced it.

Atrus, first off thank you for that novel of a post, as I am quite fond of reading, however in your seventh paragraph you challenged Cade and their entire crew to honour combat with the terms "None may fight in your stead," does this mean you intend to fight the whole of the crew by yourself while simultaneously denying the challenged the right to a champion?

When did Former Commodore Cade become a warrior monk, because he is dodging the crap out the town.

Yes, Atrus meant that his term is to fight ALL of Cades crew. No he doesn't know how big it is, nor does he likely care. I highly doubt that he'll be dismissed. He clearly says that if he proven wrong about Cade swindling the town, he'll stand down. He has also offered himself to questioning.

Can we please place bets yet?

-Argyle Del Dragon

Was wondering when Argyle would show up. We have a party now.

I bet 40 gold that The pirate will continue to dodge his challengers.

-Leon

Cade,

I am here to make a few coin on betting, my only malice it toward the sea witch. I personally, have no issues with a good Celtic Conversion. Personally, I have my doubts you'd ever dabble in necromancy.

I have faith that the Barony will work this out. I am still willing to go were-whaling with yourself.

I'm off to the Black Bird, and then it's back to work.

Del Dragon, Argyle

Love ya Argyle. I trust Louis and the Barony as well.

I have been staying out of this conversation as a whole, and cannot, nor will not speak of anything I cannot confirm is 100% true. The only thing I CAN confirm is that Cade is being truthful in relation to the comment made regarding giving those two citizens back their money, as I witnessed it first hand. He did say "You cannot trust everyone in this town, some will just take your money and run," as he handed the gold back.

Solitaire - it is my expert opinion that Atrus will beat the entire crew himself if no substitutions are allowed. I would advise the captain to select his condition being the combat not be to death. I back my claim with 1000 gold and offer odds of 3:2. The crew list is that effective as of 21 July 1217.

Being one of the two who learned this lesson from Cade, I can also verify that he both informed me that people are capable of saying that that they are something they aren't and that he did in fact hand the money back. Atrus, if you would like to come to the bank with me to see the gold, I am more than willing to show you. As for commenting on this whole thing, every time I perceive myself to be drunk enough for this, I pass out within a few minutes and wake up with a headache that would make Aguara wince. I will say that while the term 'pirate' has similar negative connotations to the words 'bandit' and 'murderer', if Cade were to follow through with the terms of the Accord, the term's reputation could easily be brought into a more positive light, given time.

HOWEVER, the methodology behind this proposal is sincerely lacking in terms of official backing (and considering the events prior to this moon's Feast, I believe myself to be an expert in altering the norm without a person of power backing my proposal) and this detail has caused a whole host of parchment to go to relative waste. Captain Cade Tanwyn, I support the majority of this accord, and I imagine (over the course of a few pints in the Black Bird, as has been suggested) that others could share my viewpoint, especially if you were to find an alternative name, considering the knee-jerk reaction that we've all pointed out.

I see no point in duels over something such as this, but if those who have made the proposal still stand by it, it is Cade's choice.

Lastly, Captain Cade Tanwyn, I would like to inform you that you are, in fact, the nicest pirate with whom I've had the opportunity to converse.

For the love of Valos stop wasting your time. It's clear Cade is not using the term Pirate correctly. He thinks it means free company of sailors, when the legal definition means Nautical Bandit. Everyone in town has shown up to give their opinion on this, and for what? Quibbling over semantics Cade clearly is ignorant of?

Cade, you mean Buccaneer. Stop calling yourself Pirate.

Oh, and Cade.. I second Edwin, don't duel Atrus to the death, no matter how many sign on to your crew.

To the Challenged Cade Tanwyn and the Challenger Fortune Demeanor, all five hundred of you idiots fighting over the same contest of honor

I just happened to have this on hand for reasons, expecting something like this to occur, so I'll post it here and let you sort it.

These rules were brought by former Squire Sorel Argentblade on behalf of His Grace, Sebastian Everest, Count Winterdark, to a historic challenge against Sir Malcolm Luther Germaine by Tobar Moroz Rasia... if anyone cared to hear the story. I've been researching it in my pursuit of the histories of my Land. I do not know if they are current, but they should help settle the matter at least.

Go find nobles to support your petty arguments. Name seconds. Name a neutral party to run negotiations. Read the damned laws. And get it over with.

--Mantel Warrane

Rules of Honor Combat
Challenge

In order to initiate the honor combat, the Challenger must provide what he feels the Challenged has done to besmirch his honor, or the honor of whomever is being defended. The Challenged has the option to turn down the honor combat, but then must publicly admit that what he has done was wrong and dishonorable. If the Challenged accepts the honor combat, he does not have to admit to anything whether he wins or loses. Both the Challenged and the Challenger then meet on neutral ground in order to discuss the terms.

Terms

Both the Challenger and the Challenged meet to discuss the terms of the combat. Both the Challenged and the Challenger choose Seconds in the discussion of these terms. A fifth person who is of a neutral party is called in as well for this discussion. The Challenged sets the first term, which both parties must agree on. The Challenger then decides the second term, which both parties must agree on. The Challenged then decides the third and final term, which both parties must agree on. If both parties cannot agree on a term, it is the responsibility of the neutral party to decide if the term is fair or unfair. If the term is decided to be unfair then another term must be decided upon. Once all terms are agreed upon both parties must decide on where and when the Honor Combat is to occur, and will then meet at the appointed time and place.

Combat

A noble of the land wherein the duel is occurring must be present to oversee the fight. No outside help may be given to either party for the duration of the combat. Observers must remain silent during the fight. Failure to observe these rules will result in the person violating them being removed from the area and charged as if they have interfered with the conduct of a noble. Once the fight has ended, the victor is announced and the matter is settled.


An honor combat must be condoned by the highest noble of the land wherein the combat is to occur.
Fleeing from combat or breaking any of the agreed upon terms will result in disqualification of the offending party, who will be named the loser by the overseeing noble.
If one of the parties breaks the laws of the land they are disqualified and to be charged for their crimes in the highest of punishments.
If the combat is interrupted, both parties will agree upon a time to reconvene and continue the combat.

Mantel,

D'ye think besmichin' a noble publicly be a petty argument or cause fer honor combat? Good thing I nay care what ye think. Are ye nay capable of readin' the laws ye be tackin' on t'yer postings?

1 - Issue challenge and give reason why & what t'offense be. - D has done this - Only when this step be complete and a response be given by the challenged do ye move on to step 2. - Cade has not yet responded.

2 - Meet and have a neutral party present, discuss terms, name seconds and a location. Only when this step be completed d'we be movin' on t'the last step.

3 - We be goin' t'agreed location and fight if t'highest noble of the land of t'location condones it and is present.

As ye can see, I nay be needin' t'do anything at this point but wait until Cade finds his balls if he be havin' any to respond to me challenge.

Angeliana wrote: Mantel,

D'ye think besmichin' a noble publicly be a petty argument or cause fer honor combat? Good thing I nay care what ye think. Are ye nay capable of readin' the laws ye be tackin' on t'yer postings?

1 - Issue challenge and give reason why & what t'offense be. - D has done this - Only when this step be complete and a response be given by the challenged do ye move on to step 2. - Cade has not yet responded.

2 - Meet and have a neutral party present, discuss terms, name seconds and a location. Only when this step be completed d'we be movin' on t'the last step.

3 - We be goin' t'agreed location and fight if t'highest noble of the land of t'location condones it and is present.

As ye can see, I nay be needin' t'do anything at this point but wait until Cade finds his balls if he be havin' any to respond to me challenge.

Misdemeanor, can you provide a location where i besmirched Lord Admiral Aleister? I was unaware I had done so. Also if I had, I would encourage him to respond to any of the letters I had sent him and we could discuss it.

As far as Atrus is concerned he and I are speaking privately and I expect with the coming forward of multiple witnesses corroborating my story that the matter will be settled without incident.

Cade,

Ye wrote: "Also Aleister, I recall you telling me you'd go to the very gates of hell for your vassals. I guess that was a load of horse shit. Seeing as how you knew I was a pirate when you hired me as commodore. Now that I try to organize a disenfranchised group of people in Travance and point them toward a more unified goal you abandon me? I thought you said you'd stand with me?"

First, me Lord ye shall address as LORD TARTAROS. He nay yer equal. Second, ye be sayin' his word be a load of horse shit, be callin' him a liar. That be besmirchment. I won't even go into how ye mentioned me land taking a collective shite on ye. Yer one offense on me Lord is plenty.

Yer welcome fer the education.

Angeliana wrote: Cade,

Ye wrote: "Also Aleister, I recall you telling me you'd go to the very gates of hell for your vassals. I guess that was a load of horse shit. Seeing as how you knew I was a pirate when you hired me as commodore. Now that I try to organize a disenfranchised group of people in Travance and point them toward a more unified goal you abandon me? I thought you said you'd stand with me?"

First, me Lord ye shall address as LORD TARTAROS. He nay yer equal. Second, ye be sayin' his word be a load of horse shit, be callin' him a liar. That be besmirchment. I won't even go into how ye mentioned me land taking a collective shite on ye. Yer one offense on me Lord is plenty.

Yer welcome fer the education.

I have no idea what you're saying. But since you did manage to write my own words down I got that bit at least. If Lord Aleister would like to challenge me I would accept. I feel like you are challenging me on dishonest terms though. It is my opinion you are mad over the fact that I have cleverly pointed out that your name is synonymous with petty crime.You are merely taking advantage of Dregamire's muddlsinging at me and jumping on the chance to find more socially acceptable grounds to fight me openly. If Alesiter wants to talk I will gladly talk to him. If Aleister feels his honor has been irrevocably damaged and wants to challenge me? Well, I'd lose the fight but I would answer it. But from you? Over this? No. Give me your real challenge misdemeanor or leave me alone. Do not use this charade to offer your challenge. Challenge me honestly or not at all.Or have Aleister challenge me.

Aaah finally, the coward reveals his true colors.

I be called Fortune Demeanor, me Lord be called LORD Tartaros.
Ye nay control who challenges ye to honor combat nor why. I challenged ye honestly and openly fer offenses to me lord and me land, ye refused.

Now Travance knows ye be a coward.

I'm a pirate Misdemeanor. Coward is half in the job description. I don't much like bullies and won't bother with your childish challenge. Now let the adults talk.

Buccaneer Cade,
I'm just going to assume that you have the best intentions when it comes to these accords. But I'd just like to ask you a question..
You do understand that these accords can't be legally canon until they'be been accepted by the nobility of Travance, yes?
And even still, let's say that Drega'mire accepts these accords (I'm going to doubt it, but that is just an example) they would only be legally canon in the land of Drega'mire. Everyone else does not have to follow with them unless they want to, or unless they're accepted by the other lands, or by the baron, or even the Count.

Regardless, you made these accords as a guideline to be followed by, quite possibly, a group of organized "pirates" (Or a guild). As wonderful as that is, couldn't you have just got together the people whom would follow these accords and gone over it with them in private, rather than posting them on a public forum for everyone to see?

I mean, the rogues here are probably organized, and have their own set of regulations amongst themselves, but you don't see them posting here in the public.

I'm not saying that you, or these accords are stupid or anything. But the way you're trying to break them in was pretty dumb. You could have easily avoided all of this.

But then again, things could have changed. I've been dead for a year, so who knows.

Hopefully things will get straightened out. Also, I think I owe Argyle 40 gold now. But that's neither here nor there.

-Leon

Justé wrote: Buccaneer Cade,
I'm just going to assume that you have the best intentions when it comes to these accords. But I'd just like to ask you a question..
You do understand that these accords can't be legally canon until they'be been accepted by the nobility of Travance, yes?
And even still, let's say that Drega'mire accepts these accords (I'm going to doubt it, but that is just an example) they would only be legally canon in the land of Drega'mire. Everyone else does not have to follow with them unless they want to, or unless they're accepted by the other lands, or by the baron, or even the Count.

Regardless, you made these accords as a guideline to be followed by, quite possibly, a group of organized "pirates" (Or a guild). As wonderful as that is, couldn't you have just got together the people whom would follow these accords and gone over it with them in private, rather than posting them on a public forum for everyone to see?

I mean, the rogues here are probably organized, and have their own set of regulations amongst themselves, but you don't see them posting here in the public.

I'm not saying that you, or these accords are stupid or anything. But the way you're trying to break them in was pretty dumb. You could have easily avoided all of this.

But then again, things could have changed. I've been dead for a year, so who knows.

Hopefully things will get straightened out. Also, I think I owe Argyle 40 gold now. But that's neither here nor there.

-Leon

Argyle better buy me a drink. Leon you raise a couple valid points and I do appreciate your post here. Why post publicly? This is pretty much the response I wanted. I wanted people talking about the Accords. I wanted people to weigh in on them. Could I have gotten Caldur to weigh in if I had kept it private and only amongst sailors? Unlikely. Or Primus Aldric? I doubt it. This was the quickest and easiest way to disseminate these Accords. I will very likely be taking into account many peoples concerns and going over the Accords and editing them. I appreciate everyone who has raised valid concerns over them and has given constructive feedback.

Subtle maneuvers have a place and I'm better at making them then most people think. However trying to start a new guild from scratch was not the time for subtlety. And when the powers at be are uninterested or too busy to talk to you sometimes you do something crazy like change every word from Privateer to Pirate and then see what happens. That gets people talking.

Cade,
I see a lot of "One step forward, two steps back" here. But that's just an opinion. You do what you think is best, and I'm sure you were aware of whatever consequences that follow before you posted these. I, personally, will not be following your accords, Cade. I, would be upset to see you tarnished for having good intentions. But I also wouldn't try to stop the headsman's axe, should it swing to your neck. You are, as you said, a pirate. And laws are laws.

Best of luck Buccaneer,
Leon

That is fair Leon. I will say a lot of talk has come from this behind closed doors. Turns out cooler heads preferred not to engage in the shipwreck that has become this thread. I see your point that it may all be just be two steps back and one forward. This could have all proved to be unproductive. However I am hopeful that something can come from these Accords. I am hopeful that those who know me, know my character, and what I stand for will see what these Accords could be for Travance. Or maybe I'll be hung! Sure is exciting.

Standing up for, and being willing to die for what is right is what Paladins do.
I'm not calling you a hero, but you have the inner workings of one. That's something, right?

-Leon

Cade, I know we haven't drank much together, but that might change.
*takes another swig from the bottle in his left hand, and continues writing*
You obviously have some very good intentions with your scribbles, there's a road we travel needs more paving stones.
Fortune has a few good points, and she wants to show you one of those points up close!
Like the Priest said, semantics, you have to be more creative if you want not to get in trouble with words.
For example! why not make it a CHURCH! worship the sea and then you could be the PIRATE POPE! and that would be just a creative tit... or maybe Pontif Pirate?!
your members could be wayward sailors for example, and your captains pirate priests!
you wanted a discussion worth having.... there you go... why not!?
*finishes the bottle and goes of looking for another one*

My input on Pirates is in line with Law, Cade. Acts of Piracy are often accompanied by the Death sentence in most civilized places. Don't think me sympathetic, my village was razed to the ground by men such as you process to be. Even had I not had that experience, your notion is illegal if you intend on conducting your ship as a Pirate. Either change how you present these Accords, or turn yourself over to the Guard to save them time, and yourself the trouble of fleeing.

I'll not add more to these notes. I leave this at, my opinion remains my own, separate from the Church. However, as the Church operates according to Kingdom Law, I expect officially they will take your efforts with a very dim view.

This actually raises quite an important legal question. I have examined the laws of Travance, and found none against piracy; which is important for the following reason:

The sea, unless I have become quite mistaken somehow, is not under the territory of any nation or land or king. Moreover, unless I am quite mistaken indeed, Travance does not enforce punishment for Kormyrian laws broken outside of Kormyre, unless it is in the case of aiding and abetting an enemy of the kingdom or barony or province. Further, imposing punishment without authority is quite illegal. Many slaveowners in nations with legal slavery have entered Travance, either without their slaves or having freed their slaves, and received no retribution, for this very reason.

The following question is NOT intended to pass judgment on Cade or any others discussing these accords, but rather, to discuss the legality of Piracy as I am about to define it:
If piracy is the act of accumulating wealth by taking it, by force, by ships at sea and using one's on ship and crew, under what law is this illegal?
If a pirate attacks a Navy ship, then clearly that pirate is an enemy of Kormyre and to aid him in doing so would be treasonous and make him subject to a Major Punishment as laid out by the laws of Travance. However, to attack a foreign ship, or even a civilian ship running regular business that is not related to the ordinary operation of the Kingdom (transporting gold from one nation to another, for instance), would not break any Kormyrian laws.

This is an enormous flaw in the legal system, because any men and women who regularly attacks foreign ships, who may be friends of Kormyrian traders and be of great importance to the Kormyrian economy, or even men and women who attack Kormyrian citizens in neutral waters, are NOT subject to the justice of Kormyre - and are, in fact, PROTECTED from retribution from the wronged parties within the boarders of Travance.

How should this be addressed? This appears to be an issue of vital importance.

I will be copying this message and sending it to any nobility who has jurisdiction in these matters, but who should that be? Baron Sylas? Count Winterdark? The King?

Mistress Fortune Demeanor,

Besmirching a noble is no petty offense, and in fact is to be taken very seriously in these lands, as something specifically prohibited in the law. Forgive my second posting. The way this challenge has been handled, mostly on the part of the challenged, has been a display of avoidance, as you have pointed out. The conduct of the challenged simply built up my worse humors. The next acts were to be taken by the challenged, but it seems he has turned down your challenge. He should recognize however that he must now issue a public statement corroborating your observed breach of honor. I look forward to his acknowledgment and confession.

Cade,

Glad to hear that you've possibly settled that second dispute out of the arena, and spared the lives of yourself (and your crew), but I would strongly suggest you also directly address the other, considering at one point the person your Challenger is defending was one you called friend, and one who called you friend. Or does that hold no value to you? Regardless, you are obligated to respond in earnest, at the very latest by the time she has reasserted her claim with the support of a noble.

--Mantel

Apparently my questions regarding the Articles and what does or does not constitute piracy have yet to be answered. I feel as though this might be my fault, I think I missed the question and answer portion of the discussion and came in during the "challenge the crew of the night harrier to combat." portion.