Jamaica: (Was - Re: Money, Taxes, and Rebates)

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17 years 11 months ago #2478 by Darkhunter (Darkhunter)
hmmm, been looking at land all around the caribbian, and jamaica still seems to have some nice plots and prices, in soon to be constructed area's. or so the listing said. Charlie next time your there, could you please take a peak around where you guys are and see  what is availible...and if its worht the price or not....just wanting to see  what prices on the ground are, compared to prices on the internent and what not....my parents have become very intrested aswell in aqquiring off-shore (out of the CONUS) property and will likely if I do go the route I am wanting to go, do the purchasing for me. anyway , please continue, and btw just had a chancew to look over the pictures.....the place is amazing.

**********************
Bjorn Triplethree

**OOC**
Rob
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17 years 11 months ago #2484 by geezer (geezer)
Thaks you, robert.  Interestingly enough one of our neighbors plots is probably availabler in that Ester died two years back and her husband predeceased her.  Let me write to the estate and see.  Seriously, in a year or so when you are stateside and after you get to spend some time with your child and such, we will plan a trip and it would be my pleasure to personally guide you for a few days, not to mention putting you up.

If you are googling it, or checking locations, stick with Westmoreland or Hanover Parish.  If you want to find our spot on a map, Start at Montego Bay, on the north side of the island, about 3/4 opf the way to the west.  Go along the coast and you will see a good sized town called Lucea.  The next town west is Green Island.  Follow the inland road until you come to Prospect, around 1.5 miles?  Turn left up the prospect road, not hard left but around a 135 degree turn.  From the turning point it is around 1.5 miles. Some maps might actually have Saxham written on it, but most will show Pell River and Grange. 

I am absolutely exhausted from the move and the walk down memory lane that ensued while sorting out various things.  Why my sister's and my baby teeth are kept in my father's safe, while such worthless items as a very fine, mint set of C-13-15 (The Graf Zeppelin air mail stamps) are left in a cigar box is anyone's guess.  Its not even a complete set of teeth, but I remember being the extractor for my younger sister.  I had a painless pinching technique...

Will upload some stuff tomorrow evening.  Keep in mind that having electric and/or water at your property, along with a road, makes is worth more.

"History is an omelet.  The eggs are already broken."

Edwin Haroldson
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An ethical person does the right thing when no one is watching.

OOG - Charlie Spiegel - Kitchen Marshal

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State..."
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17 years 11 months ago #2529 by geezer (geezer)
This is written as I wing my way to Florida to help my dad relocate in his complex from “normal” to “assisted” living.  The entire family agrees that next time he gets a heart attack, to have some consideration and do it other than a holiday weekend when the fares are triple normal.

Building a house in Jamaica – building anything in Jamaica – is completely different from any other construction project you can imagine.  Unless of course, you have built in Lahu (a small region located near Chang Mai, in what used to be called Thailand), but that is another story best told by Joey Z, known professionally as Joseph Zammarelli, PhD.  Really, the truth is much better than fiction.

First, we have always paid the equivalent of union wages.  Today they are:
Casual (unskilled) Labor $1200/day  $17
Journeyman carpenter  $1500/day $21.50
Master carpenter/mason  $2500/3000/day  $36-$43
Site supervisor  $3500/day  $50

Understand that these prices are in J.  The current rate of exchange is 70:1 so the second number is the value in US dollars.  Labor is easy to come by, especially as we always hire for between 8 and 20 days straight.  People tell those for whom they are working that they will be taking X number of days off, because our work is time dependent, that is, they can only work when we are present.  You can guess why, but don’t worry, I’ll explain.

We found out quickly that there is a Jamaican way of doing things.  Mostly, we were ok with them, unless it conflicted with our way, i.e., the correct way.  How can you tell when your Jamaican site boss does not have a clue?  When the phrase “I know exactly what you mean” crosses his lips.

Putting in a foundation is straightforward when there is no need to worry about a frost line.  A trench is dug around 18 inches wide to a depth of around two feet below the surface.  The trench is as level as possible, except for when it will drop or rise the height of a cement block, around 8 inches (our blocks were 16” long, 6” wide and 8” high).  Digging was done by four men, working along lines provided by stakes and string overseen by the site boss.  While this was going on the steel man set up shop.  Jamaican code requires steel through every other course of block and the steel to be 3/8 of an inch rebar.  Naturally, my/our specs called for ½ inch steel to be in every block, with the entire to be filled with concrete, making it not just steel reinforced, but with the added stability of concrete.  The difference seems slight, but in theory there is almost twice as much steel in ½” and around 40% more tensile strength.  The bar is capable of being bent double, so it will not snap.  A hurricane might crack something, but I will be hung if it will collapse.  Steel men charge by the pound.  Unfortunately they insist on treating ½” rebar, which is actually 15/32 to 7/16” diameter as if it weighed what half inch does.  There is a substantial difference, but it is an island wide system not assailable by logic or measuring tools.  ::sigh::

Along the bottom of the trench the steel man assembles a beam, which consistes of six lengths of steel, tied (held) together at each end with a rectangular frame, also made from ½” steel.  The separate pieces of steel are hled in place with binding wire, a flexible size.  The six pieces that make a beam have their ends protrude, some going up the wall and others forming a foot at the base.  Its nice that rebar comes in 20 to 22 foot lengths.  Working steel is a science, not an art.  Having seen it done, I can do it, including making the jigs.  I’d rather pay someone to do it, as it saves time and for the money, its worth it. 

Their normal building practice calls for placing smaller beams above each window/door opening.  When I suggested using ½” thick by 4” wide steel across the tops of window and door openings, one would have thought I had come up with the wheel.  Sufficiently strong, and saving a great deal of time and money, it revolutionized local construction.  I kid you not.  Wait’ll I tell you about the roof.

Needless to say, we learned that buying steel by the ton was cost effective.  Having been in that business, I knew three years ago that the Chinese were going gonzo with cement and steel, so we ordered and sat on 5 tons of steel.  Hey, we made money on it, because we needed every bar and the price increased substantially, both in J and US.  Cement is up from around US 6 to $8, but there is no way to store it for more than a few months.  We keep up to 200 bags (at 45 kilos per bag that’s ten tons of cement, folks).  Early on, we learned that our site boss knew most aspects of the building trade, but was not the best when it cam e to estimating materials.  My group looked for someone with ready arithmetic skills.  Tom is our water commissioner, Jeff (Jeef, or Boss) our water commissioner, Dick is our supernumerary (he watches), and I handle local relations – like the parish council, neighbors, etc.
Back to the road for a moment.  As I said, we built from Prospect, which was our second choice, the first being to go through Sprague land as it was shorter.  It would also have the advantage of bringing the Sprague’s a nice road and electricity at zero cost.  Win-win – that’s how I learned to nail down a negotiation.  The aforementioned Willi Vassel was the legal representative of this numerous, contentious, and distrusting clan.  I met him in person, came to an agreement, gave it to our attorney to put in writing (it’s a British system, non-adversarial, so the same attorney can represent both sides).  Our original deed was made legit by the affixing of a postage stamp, hand canceling it, and having the attorney attest to it in writing.  Only took a decade to get a hard copy from the parish.

Anyway, there I am, down for a three day weekend with the sole purpose of meeting Willi and Mr. Frater, the attorney who represented both parties and then signing the agreement.  Having spoken to Willi three days earlier, I knew the time and having been to his house on my previous visit, the place.

I arrived at the appointed time, which means I was early for Jamaica and was not surprised to see a few cars there, as it is not every day that such an agreement is reached and signed.  I knocked and the door was answered. 
“My name is Charlie Spiegel.  I’m here to see Willi Vassel.  We have some business to conduct.”
“I’m afraid you cannot speak with him, Mr. Spiegel.”
“Really, he is expecting me and wants to see me.”
‘I am certain he would like nothing better.  Unfortunately he died yesterday.”
After my jaw raised itself from the ground, I turned to Eric Frater, a fine man, a superb attorney, and a plain good guy.  “What happens now?”  Pointing to the people gathered around the large table, he said they were the elders and could probably come to an agreement.  Unfortunately, led by the formidable Beryl Sprague, of sufficient age to more than remember the bad old colonial days, they were loathe to sign the 30 foot right of way granting the electric company the right to maintain their lines.  It seems way back when, such instruments were often used by unscrupulous people (mostly white, I must say) to separate Jamaicans from their land.  No matter what Frater and I said, they were adamant that this was a scheme to steal Sprague land. 
Three years after the road was finished, we ran into Beryl, who was well aware of the benefits we had brought to the few Jamaicans who lived between Prospect and our property, none of whom were Spragues.  She admitted as to how she had made a terrible mistake in blocking our project from going though their land and asked if we were going to extend the road to either Grange or Cauldwell, which would bring things through their property, in varying degrees.  ::sigh::

Concrete is made the old fashioned method.  Cement is mixed in proportion with sand and ½” stone, so many wheelbarrows of each per bag of cement.  Mixing is done by shovel and water is added and the resulting concrete is shoveled into either wheelbarrows or buckets and carried/wheeled to where it is needed, the steel having been placed ahead of time.  Thus, to maximize time, the steel man must be finished before the trench is finished, so he can begin placing the steel.  Once a tier of steel is in place, the making of concrete can commence.  It only took a week to get that concept through.  It would not have cost me any more money, but time mattered, as I only had 8 working days the first house trip.

Oh, did I mention that just because one paid for material in advance there is no guarantee that it will be there or delivered when one needs it?  True.  There are times that there is an island wide shortage of cement, or it rained and trucks do not want to risk the hills, especially before the road was done – even now, delivery during the rainy season is problematic.  Cement is ASTM B-164, also known as Portland cement.  Most of ours, due to a scandal effecting Caribe Cement, came from Egypt.  Bags had a picture of a pyramid on the side, the ASTM info, and said “Over 5000 years of experience.”  Gosh, I love some aspects of this frustrating, yet informative, experience.
Now landing in Ft. Lauderdale 79 degrees F.

Edwin Haroldson
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OOG - Charlie Spiegel - Kitchen Marshal

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State..."
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17 years 11 months ago #3646 by geezer (geezer)
A new link to some new pics.  They interior shots are mostly from Casa Dimock, but you can see our stone walkway in one of them.

In the photo entitled something to the effect "relaxing with friends on the beach, please take notice of the guy in the white t-shirt.  It is from him that we receive our smoke and strobes.  We go back to our HS chess team.


www.pyrotom.com/album/Jamaica08/Feb28/Photos.html

Edwin Haroldson
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OOG - Charlie Spiegel - Kitchen Marshal

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State..."
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17 years 10 months ago #4308 by geezer (geezer)
I leave the 25th for two weeks to finish the kitchen sink, cabinets, buy appliances, oversee the making of two waterbed frames and a few minor items.  Bringing down some air mattresses and buying some cheap furniture so the boys will have something in June.  Will also have one bureau custom made (its still tres cheap) and will look into the cost of a railing for our porch.  What the heck, if some drunk falls off and breaks their neck it is good that Jamaica does not recognize stuidity on the part of the deceased as legal grounds for a lawsuit.

Seems my hot water system was damaged by a cow.  i had enclosed the storage tanks and exposed pipes under the main structue with a half wall enough to stop someone from emptying a tank and stealing it.  Some untethered cow stuck her head in and damaged a significant portion.  This coming Wednesday, if the damage has not been repaired, I will gain an first hand lesson concerning the Jamaican legal system when I bring a constable to the owner's house.  Having a deserved reputation for being "the prick" will serve me well in this endeavor.

Edwin Haroldson
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Master of the Mages' Guild

An ethical person does the right thing when no one is watching.

OOG - Charlie Spiegel - Kitchen Marshal

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State..."
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17 years 10 months ago #4330 by Seamstress (Seamstress)
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar dear; and remember not all of Valley View's residents want to be known as pricks, but your influence does rub off on all of us.

OOG ~ Tina S ~ aka Seamstress
Primary Location 42°42' N, 75°11' W
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