On the matter of the library

What a rousing debate this has become! It is certainly enjoyable.

Brax, your arguments have not been given any pillars upon which to stand. You keep insisting upon the certain employment of this exclusionary tactic, but you have not yet told us why an establishment that - by your own words - does not seek a profit would engage in such behaviour when other types of establishments would not. At the moment, we have nothing but your self-proclaimed intelligence and "they should not be run at a profit" as evidence, which do not logically lead to the conclusion that librarians would restrict  access to other libraries.

Why would you refuse to give the password to the library to scholars if you knew it, when you have also said that the information contained therein should be free to any? This is contradictory.

Furthermore, you have stated you would require payment to assist the scholars of Travance in stocking the library, as your time is valuable. Why, then, is mine not? Why should I expected to do these things for the benefit of Travance, to contribute my time and money to a library, without compensation? Is it due to some noble quality you have assigned to me? If so, I must both thank you for the compliment and humbly deny its assertions.

I look forward to reading your clarifications of these contradictory statements. I also have to wonder if you realize the full implications of the statements you have been making.

To address everyone else who has been reading this, I hope you do not think that the only way to monetize a library is to charge for access to the books. Please do not make the assumption that I am in any way trying to restrict access to information to the law-abiding citizens of Travance.

Father Haroldson, I can think of several professions whose members I would personally not want anywhere near my books. I am sure with a minimum amount of effort you can think of some, as well. You have made your dislike of the Mage's Guild quite obvious in the past, and I do have to wonder if this has colored your opinion on the location of Loremaster Belegchand's arcane codices. Of course, we could have additional codices, available in another location. This would also ensure that if one of the books was somehow lost or the building itself was destroyed, the information would still be easily available.

-Lois

Lois, while my dislike for certain aspects of the Mages Guild is well known, it is also true that Guildmaster Silverbow and I have a great deal of personal respect for one another.  Indeed, I employ his personal services in matters of the Church, when allowed, and for most of my personal projects as well.  No mage has been refused admittance to the library to my knowledge.  Unless a profession is banned from Travance, they have a right to the knowledge contained in general works.  I might restrict specific works, such as those relating to the Church, to those baptized to the Light, and those referring to dangerous creature to those who have a demonstrated ability to handle the attention such knowledge attracts, but those are very specific instances and apply to very few of the works on hand.

Lois,
   I would like to start with restating my previous question which has yet to be answered. Whom is the second Barbarian whom was arguing over books, I see myself and Templar Nightwing but he was not arguing with me, so please pray tell whom is this second Barbarian?

Now with that out of the way allow me to respond to your statements.

Why am I against a second library. It is unnecessary it is frivolous. It is in my belief bad for the barony and would restrict the dissemination of knowledge. And yes libraries should not be run at a profit. For doing so encourages graft avarice and puts this with meager finances at an unsafe disadvantage against those with greater finances... Insert an argument against Fr. Haroldson because he is a man of great means. Yes he is a man of great means but he has proven himself to be a great philanthropist and so any argument that could be made on that point is invalid.
A for my self proclaimed intelligence. Yes I claim I am of not insignificant or lessened intelligence. Volume of learned knowledge is no basis for measuring intelligence nor is it. Basis for measuring intellect. This is where one might argue " but you yourself said you are just a dumb Barbarian" to which my rebuttal is "you are obviously unfamiliar with sarcasm"
IF I knew the password to the library which I do not, I would not give it out to anyone not just to a scholar who might ask. Doing this is not a restriction of knowledge. I would not give it out because it would not be my place to give it out. If someone wished to know the password to do research it would be THEIR personal responsibility to find out what it is. Not mine to hold their hand and help them with a profession which is not my own. I would not ask a Mage about how to be a Warrior. I would not expect a scholar to ask a Warrior about scholarly things. Yes I said the information should be free. The ability to access it is not my place to approve or disapprove.
You expect me to put my life and limb in danger to help you be a scholar yet refuse me compensation for the danger I put myself into. Do not expect my assistance. Last I checked a paper cut was not as dangerous as a troupe of Forrest trolls. No I do not believe you should be compensated by ME for providing more volumes to the baronial library that is for the count or the baron to reward you for such. If I were to purchase a scroll ballad canticle or plasm from you well then yes I would compensate you.. For the essence you expended to create the commodity. Just as I do when I purchase clothing from Seamstress or luxuries from one of our many gypsies or new shoes from our cobbler or food from one of our many bakers or chefs or farmers.
And yes I do understand the full implications of what I am saying. Furthermore I disbelieve that a library should be run at a profit for that would place it under the jurisdiction of the merchants guild and by that very jurisdiction it creates an imbalance and prevents any who seek knowledge from obtaining it within the law. Now if you or anyone else would like to make an arrangement with Fr. Haroldosn or Mr. Amizar  about selling your scholarly wares through the library we have that is a conversation you must have with them... Or whomever the current proprietor of the baronial library is.
Returning to the topic of time and money. Were I a scholar I would donate my tomes and codescies et al to the library as an act of philanthropy however any scrolls ectectect I made would be to be sold such that I had funding for paper and ink to create more volumes to add to the library. And again were I a scholar and wanted to go out on an adventure to find funding for my work exclusive of mercantilism I would expect to be required to pay the person I hired as an escort. Or if I was unwilling to do that I would take my chances on going out alone.
If you continue to insist I am being contradictory then I can only presume you are doing such to continue not debate but argument for it's own sake to which I will not participate.

Fr. Haroldson, Fr. Osred, Mr. Amizar, your Grace the Count, I offer myself and my skill as a craftsman in the construction of the new library building such that it may be a free and open repository of wisdom for the people of our barony.

Father Haroldson, thank you for clearing that up. It seems we are both in agreement that some people should be denied access, though it is a much smaller number than those who should be allowed: denial to those of illegal professions (if they exist), and perhaps sub-categories of other professions such as dark priests seeking to access works concerning the church of light. These are, however, philosophical matters; practically speaking, it would simply be best for all involved to have duplicates of certain specific works such as a codex of the arcane. I will do my best to alleviate this difficulty.

Brax, you still have not answered my first question, which is how you are so certain librarians, being normally of a temperament to share information, would try to restrict access to other libraries.

The rest of what you said is irrelevant to me, as it is addressing points which I have not made. However, I have spotted what seems to be at the root of your misconceptions: your belief that the control of a library would rest ultimately with the Merchant's Guild, and that generating income is the same as functioning for profit (You may wish to read Father Haroldson's manuscript on economics for some more in-depth information on the latter point.). Let us see if you, or perhaps some of the other readers, can spot the flaw in your reasoning. This entire debate may make an excellent study aid when I next teach more advanced logic.

As for your question of two barbarians arguing, if it is that important to you, perhaps you should go knock on the door of the Dragon's Claw and ask Jonas what he meant.

I would pay the rest of your points more individual attention, but I have a terrible paper-cut, and alas, all I can muster are these scant few paragraphs! Perhaps I should go and fight some forest trolls, so that my time can be counted as worthwhile as yours.

-Lois

Lois, it ill becomes you to denigrate one of a person's professions.  If people such as Fr. Brax and I, not mentioning hundreds of others who do so as well, did not keep the enemies of Travance at bay, others who lead mainly sedate life would be forced to learn how to adequately defend themselves.  I distinctly recall our first meeting.

Lois,
   I am sorry that my posts are either too verbose or Cerebrally obtuse.
Let me use smaller and less difficult words.

We have a perfectly good library
We do not need another
A for profit library would fall under the jurisdiction of the merchants guild
This is bad
It by definition in terms excluding
It is counter to the sharing of knowledge
Who am I so certain two libraries in competition would be to the detriment of the people?
Personal
Political
Financial agenda above and beyond the mission of sharing knowledge and wisdom.
As for economics and logic my grasp of each is sound and par excellence.
As for addressing points you have not made.
I was addressing and responding to points you or others might make pre-emptively.