Reenchanting?

I'm looking for a skilled mage to help me reenchant a little trinket I stumbled upon. It's a small gold pendant from the Inverted Tower that grants the ability to Windwalk to it's wearer. I'm just trying to check prices right now, find out who would be best fit to do the deed and what I would have to trade for it.
If you know anyone, or are interested yourself, please let me know as soon as possible.

My thanks,
Clytie Corentin

If is indeed what we call "trinket" it cannot be re-enchanted. They are limited use items.

I think I viewed this item so I don't expect that my opinon will be overruled by another mage.

If you wish me to explain what needs to be done, I can be located at the Mage's Guild.

Ardin Silverbow

Wotcher,

If we can, for just a moment, put aside any notion of "enchanting," I believe I may be able to offer a more logically sound approach to this quandary - the likes of which you may be interested in pursuing, Miss Clytie.

As it happens, I was a part of the party responsible for sourcing the pendant which now resides in your possession. Looking back upon my field report from the expedition, it would seem that the ruin from which we retrieved the pendant (the "Inverted Tower," to use its local moniker) was unusually warm - several areas of the substructure had been damaged by local wildlife, allowing hot geothermal gases to slowly rise into the upper floors by convection. This raised temperatures within the ruin to well above that of the air outside - which, given that it was the height of Summer, was rather cosy to begin with.

Over the intervening weeks, my instruments have detected that the daily peaks in Travance's ambient temperature have been steadily decreasing- a trend which would appear to correlate with the observed gradual decline in your pendant's efficacy.

As such, it may be possible that the strange phenomena exhibited by the pendant are somehow linked to its temperature (a sort of annealing, perhaps.) You might like to conduct experiments of your own by placing the pendant in a furnace and recording any observable changes - or, better yet, bring the pendant back to the Inverted Tower, where you may expose the pendant to precisely the conditions in which we first discovered it.

The latter would seem a particularly lenient choice, as even if your experiments should prove unsuccessful, you may nonetheless discover other artefacts exhibiting similarly unusual properties.

Very good Miss Clytie - I wish you the best of luck with your studies.

Ardin, someone else actually offered to work with the pendant in the manner requested. You did look at it, and thanks very much for doing so. Don't expect my not utilizing your services to reflect in any way your standing in my list of favorite elves.

Goggins, while I respect your well-thought-out explanation, did you ever consider that the phenomena of magic isn't caused by technical or geological forces (etcetera etcetera...), but by the biology of the beings that cast it? Check with me next moon, I'll show you something that has been considered magic in the past as well as it's logical explanation. Perhaps the conversation will reveal to both of us different ideas regarding magic.

Wotcher Miss Clytie,

It would seem that there are several points of confusion in your note; one being that "magic" is not itself a phenomenon (at least not in a scientific sense,) but rather a terminating hypothesis used by less advanced societies - allowing them to make sense of otherwise apparently inexplicable naturally occurring phenomena, such as lightning and combustion.

A second is this notion of "technical" forces - while the concept of "force" is undoubtedly useful for understanding and designing subjects pertaining to industrial science, it's not common practice to call any one force "technical" in and of itself. The reason for this is quite straightforward: Consider the set of all forces A, and the set of all "technical" forces (those exploited by industrial science) B. There are no forces that industry is inherently unable to exploit, and so every member of set A is also a member of set B, and vice versa. As forces are uniquely occurring, we can see that A and B are equivalent. As such: what additional semantic value do we add by describing forces as "technical," rather than as simply "forces?" (why, the answer is none!)

As such, I'd like to take you up on your offer of a conversation at the next possible occasion; if anything, it would perhaps serve you well to iron out these inconsistencies before you get cracking on your investigation.

Very good Miss Clytie. I look forward to seeing you soon.

Goggins is correct the term "magic" is simply a method used to provide meaning to the unknown, for examples explorers use the phrase "the new world" to define what lies beyond the horizon, before it is discovered and given a proper scientific name forever destroying these nonsensical notions of a non quantifiable phenomenon.
If it was such a phenomenon the use and future manipulation of it would be impossible as there would be no point at which to begin, but because of the limitations placed on it and the fact that it can be destroyed, what you refer to as "magic" is actually anything but magic, thus due to its nature as a catalyst for change, it is better to refer to it as an undefined energy source in order to remedy the silly notions that calling it "magic" brings.
As such rather than "enchanting" anything it is infinitely more likely that you are storing energy within an object for a period until that energy is used, which would more than likely be the reason why this device is malfunctioning. As such rather then seeking a "magician", you would be more likely find better results seeking a scholar specializing in the nature of energy to fix such a device.

*Not Caelvan*

To those who say magic does not exist how do you explain people like myself who can summon fire, ice, earth, etc. out of our hands? It is not "environmental" since we constantly move around and go in different places. So what can explain this "phenomenon" as you call it.


-Jonathan

"Metaphysics."

A simple answer and that is energy: to put it in less cryptic words, when a person exerts themselves they begin to feel warmer, correct? And when one sits down due to overexertion they begin to "cool down" correct? If you apply that concept to the world the means of causing an object or space to increase in temperature is to increase, is to cause it to exert itself. Returning to my example when a person exerts themselves, they make use of what is commonly refered to as energy which is replenished after we consume food and a period of time has passed, therefore by consequence if you increase the amount of energy an object has it should start moving and in so release heat, thus what you call "magic" is simply the transfer of energy, however since "magic" is such a vague word whose meaning can be easily manipulate, then if one were to consider bread, ale, and a nap to be magic then while you are simply labeling it differently it would be magic, although I fear it would be kind of awkward saying, "I think ill go get some magic to eat." Or "Barkeep! Ill take some magic on the rocks" and such.

However, I pursue means in which objects move, thus I will once again advise visiting a scholar whom specializes in energy and have a conversation with them on the nature of your abilities.

Wotcher Mister Jonathan,

I can only speak for myself when I say that I don't believe I've claimed "magic" to not exist, though of course I cannot speak for any others. First and foremost, the property of existence is troublesome to prove, if indeed we even accept that things can possess the property of existing.

However, in any case, I notice a few shortcomings in your logic - most prominent among them being that the belief that such "powers" are sourced from an individual precludes the possibility of them being "environmental" as you put it (which I am taking to mean "sourced from the environment.")

To better illustrate the underlying problem with this assumption, perhaps you might like to consider the following: Where does the environment stop, and the individual begin? Or, from the other side: where does the individual stop, and the environment begin?

A simple question, but one with profound implications. If you'd like to discuss this further, please do pay me a visit in Travance Proper when you are next in the area.

Very good Mister Jonathan. If you are familiar with the spiritual practices of the region - as I suspect you may well be - then perhaps you'd like to help me with some of my research? You'd be fully compensated for your time, of course. Please let me know if this is something that you'd be interested in.

Goggins,
I wonder how you would explain my helping you in the woods last moon against the fey as science. However try as you might I am not sure you will ever find a way to explain magic as science. Feel free to see me if you are interested I will show you some of my magical abilities, ones perhaps not so easily explained by environmental causes.

You know what I'm sure of? Magic. It's real. It's real because I stare at it every moment of my life. Flowing around me and you and everything else, making reality possible. Everything, and anything you or anyone knows is only here because of magic.
You know what I'm NOT sure of? That Londwyns even exist. I'm not 100% sure you aren't beings of pure illusion sent here to play a big prank on everyone (includding Ogres and Barbarians) who aren't thick enough to say that magic isn't really magic, its SCEEEIEIENCE. It would explain why you're so resistant to it. That concept, a being... ANY creature being resistant to illusions? That makes no sense. That I can only explain by saying: It's magic. It's an illusion, you are all an illusion sent to torment me into stop using words like portal and start saying nonsense words like wormholes. How would I even fit in a wormhole, have you seen how big I am.
It's all just illusionary nonsense.

~Orophin

Greetings,

I hesitated to step into this discussion, considering my inexperience in the obviously weighty matters to which it pertains. However, since speaking with Dr. Tobias, I find myself thinking about such things as personal world view and the relevance of competing perspectives when we are all right? We all have different words to identify what we perceive in the world around us.

Some call a given event, a "phenomenon" or abstract what occurs as "manipulation of energy by a yet unknown artifice". That is perfectly rational and for all purposes a correct interpretation. But, given that, it is also perfectly correct to call that same event, a "Miracle" or as well, an application of Arcane knowledge to affect a transfer of mystical energy.

The main argument is not that such effects exist, thus neatly avoiding Master Goggins' existential crisis, but how do we all describe a given event? A world view is the way we see things, describe them and each of us can see an event very differently while all still claiming to be correct. Imagine three blind men describing a dead Fire Drake. One feels its open maw, and declares, "Its a jagged thing, full of pointed spikes!". The second, near its flank, touches the scaly hide and declares, "Its a wall, shingled with overlapping tiles." The third, at the rear of the beast, declares that the thing is a, "fallen tree, long and tapering to a point."

The point of the matter is that all three are correct for the part they perceive. We all perceive different parts of our environment, our world view blinds us to the possibility that everything can be seen in a myriad of ways, locking us into the viewpoint that makes the most sense at the time. Instead of bickering over whether Magic, Faith or Science actually exists, we should be talking about the wonderful perspectives outside our own world view.

Only then can our minds be free.

With respect to all,

Sometimes people take it upon themselves to force individuals to see things from their perspective, whether they like it or not.

Well said, Brother Aldric.

I am a Blacksmith. I craft steel and the physical using my hands, and the forces of science - heat, metallurgy, physics, and sometimes a limited chemistry.

I am a White Sorcerer. Not only do I use magic, I am a guardian and creator of the very thing it is derived from.

I am a Priest. I pray to Brazen, I follow His tenants, and I aid, guide, and nurture those who follow Him as well, as well as others. In return, He grants me his miracles, which are distinctly different from those I derive from the Arcane.

I can see many parts of this fictional drake, and I can see how they all interrelate. The thing is miraculous to behold, both in individual parts, and as a whole. That whole is the world we live in.

In service to the Art,

Wotcher,

While I sincerely hope that our discussion will not cause Miss Clytie to be in any way deterred from her investigations, there remain a few key inconsistencies which I feel are perhaps being overlooked. As such, I hope you'll forgive my chiming in again at this point.

It would seem that the arguments we have read up to this point are sound. However, all rely on the same assumption: that we can make meaningful comparisons between "Magic" and "Science" (and indeed, as Mister Weaveforger provides, "Faith," which we could define as "Faith in the actions of a divine being in the world." For the sake of clarity, I will put this to one side until the end, for reasons that will soon become apparent.)

It should be clear that this is not the case. "Magic" and "Science" are different "types of thing" - it is a category error to attempt to make a meaningful comparison between the two. The first is, of course, a terminating hypothesis, the second a method by which we might evaluate any of a large set of hypotheses. Where "Tail," "Jaws," and "Scaly Hide" are all of the same category - being as they are parts of a Fire Drake (if those even exist) - "Magic" and "Science" are clearly not. To attempt to (meaningfully) compare them is no less possible than, say, attempting to compare "Spanner" with "Mister Sindarion's opinion on the best way to finish cut granite," or "Jonas Kane's belly button fluff" with "Does Miss Yhatzi sleep on her left side, or her right?"

Perhaps the best we can do is make a claim along the lines of "Magic and Science are both concepts" or "Magic and Science both exist," but then of course we are left with the problems of attempting to prove that something has the quality of existing, or of being a concept. In either case, our "Fire Drake" (i.e. the category to which both belong) is a very big Fire Drake (arguably, an infinitely large Fire Drake) and we haven't really made any meaningful headway by pointing out that both "Magic" and "Science" belong to it, as so does anything else you'd care to mention - including, yes, "Faith," or by equal merit, "Marmalade," "Crumpets," and "Ear Wax."

Very good. I hope that clarifies the distinction - and, of course, the offer I extended to Mister Jonathan is very much open to all who have knowledge of local spiritual practices in the Travance area.

there remain one or two inconsistencies which I had hoped you'd comment on:

The first being where the concepts intersect: To relate the concept to our perspectives of the fire drake, the person looking at it from the side will see what appears as a flat image of the legs torso, shoulders and head and create an image of the object, but the one looking from the front will see the shoulders and head and will create a different image of the object in question, however when the person in front presents his/her hypothesis, the one on the side will present a different opinion, now lets apply the differences between magic and science which goggins has clearly illustrated for us to this portrayal by saying that the one looking at the side saw the side of the fire drake (person A) and said to himself, "Amazing, just look at this thing it must be x," and the one looking from the front (person B) said, "hmm, I wonder what this might be, perhaps if I analyze its teeth I may identify it.". Now we must conceptualize what occurs when the two reunite and discuss their findings, it should go somewhat like this,

Person A will immediately claim the object is x, where as person B will claim that is not a definite statement and decide to follow up on his analysis, during the time Person A makes numerous claims regarding the existence of x until it becomes socially accepted as fact, later Person B returns from his investigations claiming person A's assessment might be incorrect, however Person A's hypothesis has been accepted by the community as fact, and as a result conflict emerges between the two parties, similar to how this debate began in the first place.

Thus, the question remains whether to accept society's viewpoint that x is an undecipherable super existence or the results of the analysis stating that x is an as of yet unidentified creature.
As such in the process of attempting to co-exist with one another observer B inevitably undermined his counterpart, however if person A had been standing above the creature he may have come to the same conclusion as person B's analysis, as such the existence of the concept of magic is not in question, but rather do we accept it as is or do we pursue its study and place a quantifiable label on it thus sparing the label of "magic" for the next unexplained phenomenon?

A truly fascinating discussion is being had here. I do not think I have much to contribute myself but I am quite certain the I want to hear more of these theories and philosophies. Magic and Science do not seem to be at odds, mutually exclusive or even comparable entities. Faith also seems wholly separate from the other two. Industry, the example here being given as smithing, is yet another entity that has arisen in this discussion. I think we may need to find an Alchemist next to contribute a viewpoint.

Mister Goggins, should you see me nearby when one of these conversations strikes up please wave me over or somehow else get my attention so that I may at least sit and listen.

The quick, and infinitely less burdensome answer is to simply assert that Science, the Gods, and Magic exists. Each concept, wielded by a practitioner adequately trained in the use of said art, can produce a measurable and repeatable outcome from its use. In my view, Existence is not subject to conditionals, a thing either does or does not exist. I am sure there are very learned and logical arguments that question the existence of anything, but as those same trains of thought also apply to whether we can ever truly possess knowledge, we cannot really claim any definitive answer one way or the other through that process.

Simply, and without logical acrobatics, If I call upon Valos to heal thine wounds, thine wounds heal. Whether thee choose to call it some superstitious puffery to mask an inherent scientific cause for such healing, or believe as I do that Almighty Valos gifted a measure of his Grace to me as his vessel, the fact is the wound will close, bleeding will staunch, and the pain will lessen. I personally see it as silly for a Physician to poke and prod at a wound, and do not get me started on the use of sewing thread and needles. But, if that is beneficial then in my view, it is acceptable to perform this practice as a method to heal. In the end both arts accomplish the same goal.

Keep in mind good sirs, that I accept all beings as a part of my calling to the Light, and as such I listen to thee and try to find meaning in thine words. However, please forgive me, but unless thee can somehow show that Miracles of Faith or the arts of Magic do not work, thine argument falls flat. If on the field of battle thou would refuse healing from a Priest or Druid, ask a Mage to refrain from casting destructive magic when beset by enemies, or in any way accept the spells that they can wield as aid, then perhaps at least one can call thee sincere in thine belief. But, thee would still be in error. On the other hand, if thou hath in any way ever allowed a Priest, Cleric, Druid or Mage to work their art on thine behalf, then thine belief is in question and it would be best for thee to reevaluate thine own world view before questioning others.

With that said, I for one, will cheerfully continue to petition Valos to heal thee, no matter what belief thou hold. For it is not thine belief that matters, only that I believe, and through that belief comes the Faith that allows Miracles to manifest. Some may question why a person would willingly devote themselves to preaching and endlessly teaching about the Gods. It has nothing to do with gaining anything personally, and everything to do with giving unto others. The flow of Faith from me to the parishioner is the reward, to be that blessed vessel the goal, and to honor the Divine my path.

With Courage and Light, in Valos' name,

Here, let me calm this debate down.

Firstly, the responses I've seen were extremely long, and filed with big words. Putting it in short, I didn't read any of them. I'm sure that they are quite passionate and logical, and congratulations for getting all that down on paper. My point is, however, this isn't exactly the place for people to actually read your hard work.

Second, this was an inquiry about getting a necklace re-enchanted, whether or not you believe the procedure is something that would have results. I have received plenty of responses and will follow up on it this upcoming moon. End of story.

While I appreciate the opinions on all sides, I no longer believe this is the appropriate place to debate them. If I may, please take the arguments to another location where they'll be appreciated.

Regards,
-Clytie Corentin

Clytie - it is my experience that trinkets, once used, cannot be "reenchanted." One can obtain another trinket with the same properties, or by a Sorcery Ritual, an item which will allow you to use the same ability contained in the trinket.

Wotcher,

I am glad to hear that you have found a satisfactory response to your inquiry, Miss Clytie. It does sadden me somewhat to read that you have comparatively less interest in the views of your fellow townspeople, however I acknowledge that debate of this kind is not to everyone's liking. Again, my best wishes for your inquiries - please don't hesitate to ask should you find yourself in need of assistance.

Of course, I'd be quite happy to find you on the next occasion this sort of discussion takes off, Mister Graye - I do, however, try to refrain from making a habit of such things. The explorers and anthropologists back home write of a phenomenon known as "cultural transformation," whereby living cultures can be irreversibly changed following exposure to superior technology or advanced concepts. To illustrate:

Travance has a rich and intricate system of spiritual beliefs - and I for one do not wish to cause damage to it by attempting to introduce our more advanced ideas. The cultural practices of its people are beautiful, and should be preserved wherever possible.

The second - and equally pressing - reason I prefer not to discuss mysticism on too regular a basis is as follows. I have observed that many in this part of the world consider their spiritual practices to be intertwined with their concept of personal identity. As such, any observation that would seem contradictory to the founding principles of such practices is seen as a personal insult - often provoking a negative reaction on the part of that same individual. It is not my wish to cause such responses; there is no logical reason to do so.

I fear that I may be guilty of provoking such from Mister Aldric. Please accept my sincere apologies, and know that it was not my intention to insult you - I have the utmost respect for your traditions and way of life. However, please do reflect on my words where possible, as I will upon yours; I seek to deepen my understanding of your cultural practices, and I would hope that you might find those of my countrymen to be equally as deserving of your attention.

Very good. This is all making excellent source material for my research - I would implore any here to seek me out and allow me to interview you in person on these matters. As I mentioned earlier, you would be well compensated for your time.

Master Goggins,

If I have written anything to give thee the idea that I am personally insulted, then it is I who must apologize for an ill phrased remark. This discussion is fascinating, as I profess in an earlier note, it is a subject I have recently been exploring and it is no surprise that view points different than my own exist. As to what impact thine 'superior technology or advanced concepts' may have on our 'rich and intricate system of spiritual beliefs", I would not worry overmuch about. Our faith has been around for a long time, and will continue to remain strong for a long time yet.

Ms. Clytie,

I see we have muddied the waters for a simple request, I beg thine forgiveness and wish thee good fortune in attaining the goal of thine quest.

(The writing seems a bit shaky, not as if hastily written, but as if she was having troubles holding the pen steady)

Brother Aldric,

I would very much disagree with you on the subject of physicians putting their skills to use being a waste of time. Just because something takes longer does not make it a waste of time. If you would like, we could discuss this further during the feast, if you will be in attendance. I put my faith in Valos, and am answered with prayers to help me heal those in need, but I would never tell another that they are misusing their time trying to save another.

All of you please cease and desist with this argument. Unless you are speaking about matters to help the young Nyad, your words are not needed here. If you wish to continue arguing or debating about a subject, continue it at your leisure through private messenger or in person at the next coming feast.This was a posting to help someone find a way to recover an item if possible and you have turned it into a three-ringed circus in your attempts to outwit each other one way or another. Normally I am one for a good debate but this is not the time nor is this the place since papers often do not show the disposition of the person who had written them and often tone is misinterpreted. If private messenger is not your way, I suggest, next feast if you so choose, to meet on Friday night and discuss this instead over a drink. Remember we are all subjects of Travance in the end. While we may be from many different backgrounds or land, we are at our best when we all work together and put our differences aside. Our combined strengths are going to be needed in the coming months to overcome our numerous enemies. Please and thank you, have a nice day.

(OOG: Ignore normal Signature. Also, this letter is written on the opposite side of Ardin Silverbow's letter and therefor obscures it.)

ENCSANTMENT
Thrush percses on a rusted Bar this forth of this moon.
Bring blood of Nyad Kine or water with Pisky Piss.
Will accept only gratitude or Diamonds as pay.

-G.T