Reenchanting?
- Templar Aldric

- Elite Member

- Posts: 769
- Thank Yous: 430
12 years 4 months ago #89610
by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Reenchanting?
The quick, and infinitely less burdensome answer is to simply assert that Science, the Gods, and Magic exists. Each concept, wielded by a practitioner adequately trained in the use of said art, can produce a measurable and repeatable outcome from its use. In my view, Existence is not subject to conditionals, a thing either does or does not exist. I am sure there are very learned and logical arguments that question the existence of anything, but as those same trains of thought also apply to whether we can ever truly possess knowledge, we cannot really claim any definitive answer one way or the other through that process.
Simply, and without logical acrobatics, If I call upon Valos to heal thine wounds, thine wounds heal. Whether thee choose to call it some superstitious puffery to mask an inherent scientific cause for such healing, or believe as I do that Almighty Valos gifted a measure of his Grace to me as his vessel, the fact is the wound will close, bleeding will staunch, and the pain will lessen. I personally see it as silly for a Physician to poke and prod at a wound, and do not get me started on the use of sewing thread and needles. But, if that is beneficial then in my view, it is acceptable to perform this practice as a method to heal. In the end both arts accomplish the same goal.
Keep in mind good sirs, that I accept all beings as a part of my calling to the Light, and as such I listen to thee and try to find meaning in thine words. However, please forgive me, but unless thee can somehow show that Miracles of Faith or the arts of Magic do not work, thine argument falls flat. If on the field of battle thou would refuse healing from a Priest or Druid, ask a Mage to refrain from casting destructive magic when beset by enemies, or in any way accept the spells that they can wield as aid, then perhaps at least one can call thee sincere in thine belief. But, thee would still be in error. On the other hand, if thou hath in any way ever allowed a Priest, Cleric, Druid or Mage to work their art on thine behalf, then thine belief is in question and it would be best for thee to reevaluate thine own world view before questioning others.
With that said, I for one, will cheerfully continue to petition Valos to heal thee, no matter what belief thou hold. For it is not thine belief that matters, only that I believe, and through that belief comes the Faith that allows Miracles to manifest. Some may question why a person would willingly devote themselves to preaching and endlessly teaching about the Gods. It has nothing to do with gaining anything personally, and everything to do with giving unto others. The flow of Faith from me to the parishioner is the reward, to be that blessed vessel the goal, and to honor the Divine my path.
With Courage and Light, in Valos' name,
Simply, and without logical acrobatics, If I call upon Valos to heal thine wounds, thine wounds heal. Whether thee choose to call it some superstitious puffery to mask an inherent scientific cause for such healing, or believe as I do that Almighty Valos gifted a measure of his Grace to me as his vessel, the fact is the wound will close, bleeding will staunch, and the pain will lessen. I personally see it as silly for a Physician to poke and prod at a wound, and do not get me started on the use of sewing thread and needles. But, if that is beneficial then in my view, it is acceptable to perform this practice as a method to heal. In the end both arts accomplish the same goal.
Keep in mind good sirs, that I accept all beings as a part of my calling to the Light, and as such I listen to thee and try to find meaning in thine words. However, please forgive me, but unless thee can somehow show that Miracles of Faith or the arts of Magic do not work, thine argument falls flat. If on the field of battle thou would refuse healing from a Priest or Druid, ask a Mage to refrain from casting destructive magic when beset by enemies, or in any way accept the spells that they can wield as aid, then perhaps at least one can call thee sincere in thine belief. But, thee would still be in error. On the other hand, if thou hath in any way ever allowed a Priest, Cleric, Druid or Mage to work their art on thine behalf, then thine belief is in question and it would be best for thee to reevaluate thine own world view before questioning others.
With that said, I for one, will cheerfully continue to petition Valos to heal thee, no matter what belief thou hold. For it is not thine belief that matters, only that I believe, and through that belief comes the Faith that allows Miracles to manifest. Some may question why a person would willingly devote themselves to preaching and endlessly teaching about the Gods. It has nothing to do with gaining anything personally, and everything to do with giving unto others. The flow of Faith from me to the parishioner is the reward, to be that blessed vessel the goal, and to honor the Divine my path.
With Courage and Light, in Valos' name,
- Dame Clytie Silverfang

- Senior Member

- No.
- Posts: 212
- Thank Yous: 146
12 years 4 months ago #89611
by Dame Clytie Silverfang (itsgonnabemay)
Replied by Dame Clytie Silverfang (itsgonnabemay) on topic Reenchanting?
Here, let me calm this debate down.
Firstly, the responses I've seen were extremely long, and filed with big words. Putting it in short, I didn't read any of them. I'm sure that they are quite passionate and logical, and congratulations for getting all that down on paper. My point is, however, this isn't exactly the place for people to actually read your hard work.
Second, this was an inquiry about getting a necklace re-enchanted, whether or not you believe the procedure is something that would have results. I have received plenty of responses and will follow up on it this upcoming moon. End of story.
While I appreciate the opinions on all sides, I no longer believe this is the appropriate place to debate them. If I may, please take the arguments to another location where they'll be appreciated.
Regards,
-Clytie Corentin
Firstly, the responses I've seen were extremely long, and filed with big words. Putting it in short, I didn't read any of them. I'm sure that they are quite passionate and logical, and congratulations for getting all that down on paper. My point is, however, this isn't exactly the place for people to actually read your hard work.
Second, this was an inquiry about getting a necklace re-enchanted, whether or not you believe the procedure is something that would have results. I have received plenty of responses and will follow up on it this upcoming moon. End of story.
While I appreciate the opinions on all sides, I no longer believe this is the appropriate place to debate them. If I may, please take the arguments to another location where they'll be appreciated.
Regards,
-Clytie Corentin
- geezer

- Platinum Member

- Posts: 4349
- Thank Yous: 448
12 years 4 months ago #89612
by geezer (geezer)
Edwin Haroldson
Loremaster
Master of the Mages' Guild
An ethical person does the right thing when no one is watching.
OOG - Charlie Spiegel - Kitchen Marshal
"War is a matter of vital importance to the State..."
Replied by geezer (geezer) on topic Reenchanting?
Clytie - it is my experience that trinkets, once used, cannot be "reenchanted." One can obtain another trinket with the same properties, or by a Sorcery Ritual, an item which will allow you to use the same ability contained in the trinket.
Edwin Haroldson
Loremaster
Master of the Mages' Guild
An ethical person does the right thing when no one is watching.
OOG - Charlie Spiegel - Kitchen Marshal
"War is a matter of vital importance to the State..."
- Goggs

- Premium Member

- Posts: 355
- Thank Yous: 226
12 years 4 months ago #89613
by Goggs (coryan)
OOG: Cory W-S
"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a Maul."
Replied by Goggs (coryan) on topic Reenchanting?
Wotcher,
I am glad to hear that you have found a satisfactory response to your inquiry, Miss Clytie. It does sadden me somewhat to read that you have comparatively less interest in the views of your fellow townspeople, however I acknowledge that debate of this kind is not to everyone's liking. Again, my best wishes for your inquiries - please don't hesitate to ask should you find yourself in need of assistance.
Of course, I'd be quite happy to find you on the next occasion this sort of discussion takes off, Mister Graye - I do, however, try to refrain from making a habit of such things. The explorers and anthropologists back home write of a phenomenon known as "cultural transformation," whereby living cultures can be irreversibly changed following exposure to superior technology or advanced concepts. To illustrate:
Travance has a rich and intricate system of spiritual beliefs - and I for one do not wish to cause damage to it by attempting to introduce our more advanced ideas. The cultural practices of its people are beautiful, and should be preserved wherever possible.
The second - and equally pressing - reason I prefer not to discuss mysticism on too regular a basis is as follows. I have observed that many in this part of the world consider their spiritual practices to be intertwined with their concept of personal identity. As such, any observation that would seem contradictory to the founding principles of such practices is seen as a personal insult - often provoking a negative reaction on the part of that same individual. It is not my wish to cause such responses; there is no logical reason to do so.
I fear that I may be guilty of provoking such from Mister Aldric. Please accept my sincere apologies, and know that it was not my intention to insult you - I have the utmost respect for your traditions and way of life. However, please do reflect on my words where possible, as I will upon yours; I seek to deepen my understanding of your cultural practices, and I would hope that you might find those of my countrymen to be equally as deserving of your attention.
Very good. This is all making excellent source material for my research - I would implore any here to seek me out and allow me to interview you in person on these matters. As I mentioned earlier, you would be well compensated for your time.
I am glad to hear that you have found a satisfactory response to your inquiry, Miss Clytie. It does sadden me somewhat to read that you have comparatively less interest in the views of your fellow townspeople, however I acknowledge that debate of this kind is not to everyone's liking. Again, my best wishes for your inquiries - please don't hesitate to ask should you find yourself in need of assistance.
Of course, I'd be quite happy to find you on the next occasion this sort of discussion takes off, Mister Graye - I do, however, try to refrain from making a habit of such things. The explorers and anthropologists back home write of a phenomenon known as "cultural transformation," whereby living cultures can be irreversibly changed following exposure to superior technology or advanced concepts. To illustrate:
Warning: Spoiler!
I was once told that the people of the South were for many years accustomed to using shovels for their daily toils. Because of its central role in the day-to-day life of these people, a whole set of traditions developed around the shovel - songs were written about them, fathers would pass them onto their sons as a coming-of-age ritual, superstitions became attached to the breaking of a shovel, and so on. When the scholars of the North began to find ways to mechanise the quarrying process, all of that tradition was lost forever, as shovels were no longer the principle tool used by the Southern workforce.
Travance has a rich and intricate system of spiritual beliefs - and I for one do not wish to cause damage to it by attempting to introduce our more advanced ideas. The cultural practices of its people are beautiful, and should be preserved wherever possible.
The second - and equally pressing - reason I prefer not to discuss mysticism on too regular a basis is as follows. I have observed that many in this part of the world consider their spiritual practices to be intertwined with their concept of personal identity. As such, any observation that would seem contradictory to the founding principles of such practices is seen as a personal insult - often provoking a negative reaction on the part of that same individual. It is not my wish to cause such responses; there is no logical reason to do so.
I fear that I may be guilty of provoking such from Mister Aldric. Please accept my sincere apologies, and know that it was not my intention to insult you - I have the utmost respect for your traditions and way of life. However, please do reflect on my words where possible, as I will upon yours; I seek to deepen my understanding of your cultural practices, and I would hope that you might find those of my countrymen to be equally as deserving of your attention.
Very good. This is all making excellent source material for my research - I would implore any here to seek me out and allow me to interview you in person on these matters. As I mentioned earlier, you would be well compensated for your time.
For Queen and Country,
-
A. C. Goggins
Quartermaster
Quartermaster
OOG: Cory W-S
"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a Maul."
- Templar Aldric

- Elite Member

- Posts: 769
- Thank Yous: 430
12 years 4 months ago #89618
by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Reenchanting?
Master Goggins,
If I have written anything to give thee the idea that I am personally insulted, then it is I who must apologize for an ill phrased remark. This discussion is fascinating, as I profess in an earlier note, it is a subject I have recently been exploring and it is no surprise that view points different than my own exist. As to what impact thine 'superior technology or advanced concepts' may have on our 'rich and intricate system of spiritual beliefs", I would not worry overmuch about. Our faith has been around for a long time, and will continue to remain strong for a long time yet.
Ms. Clytie,
I see we have muddied the waters for a simple request, I beg thine forgiveness and wish thee good fortune in attaining the goal of thine quest.
If I have written anything to give thee the idea that I am personally insulted, then it is I who must apologize for an ill phrased remark. This discussion is fascinating, as I profess in an earlier note, it is a subject I have recently been exploring and it is no surprise that view points different than my own exist. As to what impact thine 'superior technology or advanced concepts' may have on our 'rich and intricate system of spiritual beliefs", I would not worry overmuch about. Our faith has been around for a long time, and will continue to remain strong for a long time yet.
Ms. Clytie,
I see we have muddied the waters for a simple request, I beg thine forgiveness and wish thee good fortune in attaining the goal of thine quest.
- Sister Danae

- Senior Member

- Posts: 161
- Thank Yous: 55
12 years 4 months ago #89643
by Sister Danae (Danae)
Replied by Sister Danae (Danae) on topic Reenchanting?
(The writing seems a bit shaky, not as if hastily written, but as if she was having troubles holding the pen steady)
Brother Aldric,
I would very much disagree with you on the subject of physicians putting their skills to use being a waste of time. Just because something takes longer does not make it a waste of time. If you would like, we could discuss this further during the feast, if you will be in attendance. I put my faith in Valos, and am answered with prayers to help me heal those in need, but I would never tell another that they are misusing their time trying to save another.
Brother Aldric,
I would very much disagree with you on the subject of physicians putting their skills to use being a waste of time. Just because something takes longer does not make it a waste of time. If you would like, we could discuss this further during the feast, if you will be in attendance. I put my faith in Valos, and am answered with prayers to help me heal those in need, but I would never tell another that they are misusing their time trying to save another.
Time to create page: 0.457 seconds
Random Quote
Demon (Holding Kwildar by the throat): "Twenty six, twenty fo--five, twenty four..."
Kwildar: "You really cannot count, can you?"
