PvP in LARP

Something that I've heard about enough of, I have to say, is shuffling.

Shuffling is when a character decides they hate another so much that they will kill them over and over again until they don't come back again.

This doesn't happen often, I must admit, in fact, I don't know of an actual example of it. But I have been [strike]threatened[/strike] teased with this in an OOG manner many times.

Might I remind us, however, that, on our first tag, we all assume IC that death is perma-death? It is only when we return from the Phokus that we understand this not to be the case, that we are special. So shouldn't the assumption, when a character dies, be that when they die, they are actually dead? Because you never know how old a soul is, or whether that soul is special.

There should be no case where a player immediately walks to a Phokus and waits for the victim to come back. And if they do, than they'd best be waiting for the rest of the god damned event IC after the last tag is lost, whether they learn OOG that the last tag was lost or not. Because if their assumption is that the character will come back, then what is there IC motivation to leave their guardpost? Who is relieving them? Would anyone relieve them and faithfully guard the Phokus on the behalf of the killer's vendetta? There is no mechanic IG for knowing whether or not a character is truly dead for good, as far as the Phokus can help. I don't even think anyone IG knows the limits of the soul and the Phokus. I doubt anyone could know IG.

The worst part of PvP is direct OOG threat. It's just unnecessary. The best part of PvP is what was said earlier: the reasonable possibility of being assassinated in your sleep. The reasonable possibility of breaking into a barfight due to the exchange of a few choice words. The key is reasonable possibility: nothing is set in stone, good or bad, for either character. It's all decided based on IC interactions, culminating in spontaneous physical violence. The best way to make fruitful PvP is to do what Dennis' player said: pull the other player decide, recap, and talk about what's cool in their interactions to come. Make everything clear, concise, consensual, and most importantly, fun.

Lux wrote:
Might I remind us, however, that, on our first tag, we all assume IC that death is perma-death? It is only when we return from the Phokus that we understand this not to be the case, that we are special. So shouldn't the assumption, when a character dies, be that when they die, they are actually dead? Because you never know how old a soul is, or whether that soul is special.

While I'm not debating your conclusions about not greifing or 'perma killing' - I have to question where you are getting this definitive statement. My character was informed very early on about the Phokus, and believed he would come through. As one who can bring people through, he's also assured others that he believes them to have the strength to come back and what not. Not that he's telling them to risk their lives recklessly, but I don't see how you can say what everyone assumes 'on their first tag'.

Fair, one can believe such, but it still isn't 100% known to the character until the first return. I'll relent that!

Your spirit must be brought through the Phokus by someone attuned to it. For this to work the attuned person must be in on it or at the very least witnessing it. Further, a spirit is not under any obligation to immediately return to a phokus they just died near. It has the option of waiting for a safer time to be brought through.

Killing another player character is a serious act, which the system needs to regulate, as Jason points out, there must be a reasonable expectation of consequences for it. After two years of play my opinion is that the system needs tweaking in this regard.

Templar Aldric wrote: Killing another player character is a serious act, which the system needs to regulate, as Jason points out, there must be a reasonable expectation of consequences for it. After two years of play my opinion is that the system needs tweaking in this regard.

As a newer player who just lost a tag at his third event in his sleep, I can attest to this (assuming it was PvP, I never got all of the details OOG from anyone, but from what I heard it sounded like a PvP situation). However, I can also say that I can't think of a very good IG system to punish PvP without drawing a clear line between a PC and an NPC. I find value in treating PCs and NPCs the same, as I'm sure most do, but it'd be difficult to reasonably punish a PC in-game without making clear the line between a PC and an NPC.

Is player killing a big issue at KR? I haven't heard of it being a major problem, though I haven't been here long at all.

Its not a huge issue, but lately its become more prevalent. Jason brings up a good point regarding Larps that do not regulate a good balance between escape or evasion skills, or even use of Alibi or Contacts, and detection skills such as tracking or divination. Without a reasonable fear of legal consequences there is the concern in any Larp that player killing will be more frequent.