Still more changes
- Tycho Montresor

- Junior Member

- Posts: 83
- Thank Yous: 46
11 years 5 months ago #106386
by Tycho Montresor (Tycho Montresor)
Tycho Montresor
Viceroy of Alisandria
OOG: Cameron S.
Marshal
Replied by Tycho Montresor (Tycho Montresor) on topic Still more changes
In case I have offended or been careless with my wording...
I realize I've had much to say, and I hope it all came across as constructive and respectful.
It's easy to just consider the rules and forget that this is the effort of real people- and friends.
So, with that said- many thanks for opening this to our participation and feedback. Whatever the outcome, those of you who work so hard to make sure KR is an enjoyable experience for everyone have my appreciation and full support!
I realize I've had much to say, and I hope it all came across as constructive and respectful.
It's easy to just consider the rules and forget that this is the effort of real people- and friends.
So, with that said- many thanks for opening this to our participation and feedback. Whatever the outcome, those of you who work so hard to make sure KR is an enjoyable experience for everyone have my appreciation and full support!
Tycho Montresor
Viceroy of Alisandria
OOG: Cameron S.
Marshal
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gallion (Gallion), Jack (Keeperofdice), Draven Erdboren (Grundill)
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- Lucien Belfast

- Junior Member

- Posts: 93
- Thank Yous: 93
11 years 5 months ago - 11 years 5 months ago #106403
by Lucien Belfast (Lucien Belfast)
Seek the truth and walk in the light,
Lucien Belfast
Priest of Valos
_____________________________________________
[OOG: Craig E. O.]
Replied by Lucien Belfast (Lucien Belfast) on topic Still more changes
Nope , it was definitely me.
I will draft up some more constructive versions of my criticism to share here. Unfortunately my suggestion is to almost completely rewrite the abilities in question as I think they are "Unbalanceable" in the current state of the game as I see it.
My concerns stem from there being an overt amount of mind altering and killing abilities. These are dangerous to RP in two ways 1: You can't RP when you're dead 2: you can RP when you're CC'd.
Sure, you can act like you're having some sort of psychotic fit in the case of necromantic terror, or you can fall to a knee and pretend to be barely conscious in the event of some sort of stunning blow. What I think we really want (despite thinking we want more "Harvest your Soul") are the skills that our characters can use in order to tell the characters story, not necessarily be a killing machine.
Overall I think the tenor of the game world could benefit from a much needed "power down". People would feel less in danger (and therefor less likely to cheat) and there would be more room to solve problems diplomatically and creatively, and also work together in fights rather than just running amok. Those things combined -might- provide for a better platform for creative storytelling rather than a constant battle to overcome the insane amounts of raw killing power held in the hands of the player base.
Plainly, anything that looks or smells like a "Slay" or an "Incap" or "Harvest your soul" can go. Of course mine is an extreme point of view, and the idea of flattening out the power curve would have major effects on all other abilities (probably for the better).
That is simply my philosophical position. I will play no matter how closely the rules resemble a game of Munchkin.
I will draft up some more constructive versions of my criticism to share here. Unfortunately my suggestion is to almost completely rewrite the abilities in question as I think they are "Unbalanceable" in the current state of the game as I see it.
My concerns stem from there being an overt amount of mind altering and killing abilities. These are dangerous to RP in two ways 1: You can't RP when you're dead 2: you can RP when you're CC'd.
Sure, you can act like you're having some sort of psychotic fit in the case of necromantic terror, or you can fall to a knee and pretend to be barely conscious in the event of some sort of stunning blow. What I think we really want (despite thinking we want more "Harvest your Soul") are the skills that our characters can use in order to tell the characters story, not necessarily be a killing machine.
Overall I think the tenor of the game world could benefit from a much needed "power down". People would feel less in danger (and therefor less likely to cheat) and there would be more room to solve problems diplomatically and creatively, and also work together in fights rather than just running amok. Those things combined -might- provide for a better platform for creative storytelling rather than a constant battle to overcome the insane amounts of raw killing power held in the hands of the player base.
Plainly, anything that looks or smells like a "Slay" or an "Incap" or "Harvest your soul" can go. Of course mine is an extreme point of view, and the idea of flattening out the power curve would have major effects on all other abilities (probably for the better).
That is simply my philosophical position. I will play no matter how closely the rules resemble a game of Munchkin.
Seek the truth and walk in the light,
Lucien Belfast
Priest of Valos
_____________________________________________
[OOG: Craig E. O.]
Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by Lucien Belfast (Lucien Belfast).
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gensai Katsuro (Tzaddiq22)
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- Tyros

- Administrator

- Posts: 215
- Thank Yous: 73
11 years 5 months ago #106485
by Tyros (Tyros)
(JP)
Officer
Replied by Tyros (Tyros) on topic Still more changes
Divine Domain Changes:
Overall, I feel that divine domains (both good and evil) should be slightly higher in power than Magic, Psionics, and Druidics. Since Divinity requires people to conform to the tenants of their god and if they fail to do so they may have their power taken away, this would be a reward for the additional RP required.
Example 1: Corrupt Health is a rank 3 that does 25 divine damage, currently. A slightly improved version would be that it does Divine Bane, aggravated damage, or is considered a lesser curse and doesn't heal until the curse is first removed.
Example 2: Luminescent Beam as a rank 4 does 50 divine and a blind effect. A slightly improved version would be that it does 75 or 100 divine damage which would bring it in line with some more damage prayers, but it wouldn't be 200 since it has a blind effect.
Chaos:
Disordered Mind – I worry that the staying silent isn't sufficient when being questioned. I don’t know anyone that questions someone, which would take silence as an acceptable response and not continue to push the question or become terribly suspicious. Personally, I would rather see something like, “The person attempting to use a detection ability has been foiled and is unable to detect if the answer is true or false for the duration of the truth detection.” By using something along these lines, the interrogator may be suspicious, but it now pushes the person be questioned to come up with a good story to try to make them believable.
Law:
Halt needs to be renamed. It sounds too much like “hold” and causes people to stop combat all together. Possible names could be Divine Restraint, Impede Movement, or Divine Impasse.
Necromancy:
Necromatic Shroud – I think this change looks good, but I would like to see something like allowing Spell Tether to work on these types of spells to allow for the chance to increase the duration as a good middle ground for the loss of duration.
With the removal of lethal lower list spells (which I agree with) will Arc-Caster be revisited to possibly add the lethal trait to a spell augment? It’s the only master list that doesn't have that option anymore.
Thanks,
Overall, I feel that divine domains (both good and evil) should be slightly higher in power than Magic, Psionics, and Druidics. Since Divinity requires people to conform to the tenants of their god and if they fail to do so they may have their power taken away, this would be a reward for the additional RP required.
Example 1: Corrupt Health is a rank 3 that does 25 divine damage, currently. A slightly improved version would be that it does Divine Bane, aggravated damage, or is considered a lesser curse and doesn't heal until the curse is first removed.
Example 2: Luminescent Beam as a rank 4 does 50 divine and a blind effect. A slightly improved version would be that it does 75 or 100 divine damage which would bring it in line with some more damage prayers, but it wouldn't be 200 since it has a blind effect.
Chaos:
Disordered Mind – I worry that the staying silent isn't sufficient when being questioned. I don’t know anyone that questions someone, which would take silence as an acceptable response and not continue to push the question or become terribly suspicious. Personally, I would rather see something like, “The person attempting to use a detection ability has been foiled and is unable to detect if the answer is true or false for the duration of the truth detection.” By using something along these lines, the interrogator may be suspicious, but it now pushes the person be questioned to come up with a good story to try to make them believable.
Law:
Halt needs to be renamed. It sounds too much like “hold” and causes people to stop combat all together. Possible names could be Divine Restraint, Impede Movement, or Divine Impasse.
Necromancy:
Necromatic Shroud – I think this change looks good, but I would like to see something like allowing Spell Tether to work on these types of spells to allow for the chance to increase the duration as a good middle ground for the loss of duration.
With the removal of lethal lower list spells (which I agree with) will Arc-Caster be revisited to possibly add the lethal trait to a spell augment? It’s the only master list that doesn't have that option anymore.
Thanks,
(JP)
Officer
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- Templar Aldric

- Elite Member

- Posts: 769
- Thank Yous: 430
11 years 5 months ago #106510
by Templar Aldric (Selrik)
Replied by Templar Aldric (Selrik) on topic Still more changes
I am with ya on the Halt prayer. It really needs a new name. I like Interdiction as an alternative. Formal sounding, with a definition that fits with ceasing an attempt to flee.
Also in agreement with the RP requirements being somewhat more stringent than other casting classes, aside from perhaps Druid. I am not expecting a boost to the abilities, but it does bear keeping in mind.
Also in agreement with the RP requirements being somewhat more stringent than other casting classes, aside from perhaps Druid. I am not expecting a boost to the abilities, but it does bear keeping in mind.
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- Bladesworn

- Platinum Member

- Posts: 1941
- Thank Yous: 238
11 years 5 months ago #106511
by Bladesworn (Bladesworn)
IG: Tyran Radley
Vassal of Alisandria
OOG: Paul Y.
Replied by Bladesworn (Bladesworn) on topic Still more changes
Keeping "silent" when under truth detection is not something I ever liked. What if I was an interrogator & I phrased my question as thusly...
Interrogator: "If Sneaky Sam was NOT the guy who stabbed & killed Farmer Fred, just NOT be silent."
Shifty Steve (Sneaky Sam's partner to the crime of killing Farmer Fred): *calls truth detection defense that allows to stay silent*.
Problem with this is the defense only allows the user to not say anything, but if he/she wanted to make sure the questioner not know the truth, he has to say something.
The idea of the truth detection abilities vs the defenses is keeping silent can be used against the defender is the questioner phrases the question in the right way.
Interrogation in LARP is not something I see easily handled. I do not envy you folks in how to make it balanced.
Interrogator: "If Sneaky Sam was NOT the guy who stabbed & killed Farmer Fred, just NOT be silent."
Shifty Steve (Sneaky Sam's partner to the crime of killing Farmer Fred): *calls truth detection defense that allows to stay silent*.
Problem with this is the defense only allows the user to not say anything, but if he/she wanted to make sure the questioner not know the truth, he has to say something.
The idea of the truth detection abilities vs the defenses is keeping silent can be used against the defender is the questioner phrases the question in the right way.
Interrogation in LARP is not something I see easily handled. I do not envy you folks in how to make it balanced.
IG: Tyran Radley
Vassal of Alisandria
OOG: Paul Y.
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- Alexandre Blythewood

- Platinum Member

- Posts: 2122
- Thank Yous: 284
11 years 5 months ago #106514
by Alexandre Blythewood (Eleventh Phoenix)
-Alexandre Blythewood
OOG: Zach Theis
Replied by Alexandre Blythewood (Eleventh Phoenix) on topic Still more changes
Actually, Paul, I would rule that your example constitutes a violation of the spirit of the interrogation skills. Also, it's not a question. It's a statement, which happens to be instructions.
Furthermore, the clause "just not be silent" offends me on a grammatical level.
You're correct that interrogation skills are difficult to balance. Over the next month, as we revisit the prayers, we'll take all of the feedback into account.
Furthermore, the clause "just not be silent" offends me on a grammatical level.
You're correct that interrogation skills are difficult to balance. Over the next month, as we revisit the prayers, we'll take all of the feedback into account.
-Alexandre Blythewood
OOG: Zach Theis
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